Episode 207 / Catriona Walkerden / Logicalis / VP, Global Marketing
Podcast: Why Marketers Need to Embrace Sustainability & How to Do It Well
Catriona Walkerden is the VP for Global Marketing at Logicalis. She has over 20 years of experience in the tech industry and her Shiny New Object is sustainability marketing. As the new unwritten mandatory brand value, sustainability can bring a lot of benefits to marketers, but needs to be navigated carefully. Here are her top tips.
Marketers have a huge role to play in shaping the narrative about their company’s efforts when it comes to sustainability. On the one hand, they can harness the power of even the smallest initiatives and share their story for a positive impact with end consumers. On the other hand, it’s crucial that they avoid “green washing” and overstating their efforts.
Catriona’s first tip for sustainability marketing is to work with credible, accredited third parties like the Science Based Targets Initiative - who defines and promotes best practices in emissions reductions and net-zero initiatives in line with the latest climate science developments. Setting commitments with the SBTI is not only good for the environment and for your brand’s reputation, but can also take costs out of the business by moving to renewable energy, among other initiatives. Although there is an initial investment, this will save money in the longer term, so it’s good business.
But there’s more to sustainability than simply following the initiatives. For marketers, it becomes an opportunity to share the brand story in a different way. Having credible organisations backing a company’s initiatives gives them more credibility, helping in turn to create transparent and believable marketing messages.
Does sustainability marketing run the risk of losing that first-mover advantage once everyone is doing it? According to Catriona, this currency won’t lose its value because there is always more to be done. Carbon emissions are classified by scope, with scope 1 and 2 falling under an organisation’s control (like electricity usage and work practices), and scope 3 looking at the brand’s supply chain. It is there that a brand can make even more of a difference and continue to share a valuable and credible story.
Patagonia is one of the brands that does this really well, starting with the brand ethos and continuing with their use of recycled materials, offering to mend garments once they get damaged, and investing in further initiatives that are not just good for the environment, but also help solidify their brand message. Siemens are also a great example of good sustainability marketing. They are carbon neutral, but they also actively share solutions and tips to help their customers become so, too. This is a commitment that Logicalis have also made and are working towards.
Listen to Catriona talk about her biggest work screw-up and share more top marketing tips on the latest episode here.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Catriona Walkerden 0:00
Right marketing shouldn't feel like marketing. How can this actually feel like a pleasurable experience and a gift that you're giving to the customer or the prospect as opposed to we are corporate and we are doing this thing to you called Marketing and you're going to endure it.
Tom Ollerton 1:18
Hello, and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of automated creative. And this is a weekly podcast where I get the privilege of interviewing someone very interesting, very successful from the industry. And this week is no different. I'm on a call with Catriona Walkerden, who is VP Global Marketing at Logicalis. Catriona, for anyone who doesn't know who you are and what you do. Can you give the audience a bit of background?
Catriona Walkerden 1:45
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me, Tom. So as you mentioned I'm the global Vice President of Marketing for Logicalis. Logicalis is a global technology solutions provider. And I look after their brand content campaigns go to market, etc. For the global team. I've worked in technology for over 20 years across a range of different organizations, large and small startups, scaleups, large enterprises. And I have worked on both sides of the equator as well or, or the hemispheres I've worked North hemisphere, South hemisphere. I actually just moved from Australia this time last year, so still adjusting to the British weather.
Tom Ollerton 2:28
So that's an impressive career and set of locations. But what has been your biggest screw up to date? What was that hand in face, Red Face moment that was awful at the time that has made you the marketer you are today?
Catriona Walkerden 2:45
Yeah, sure. So I'm gonna give a story from pretty early on in my career, which has still makes me kind of go red to this day to think about, but I've got to set a little context for it first, so I did a degree in media and popular culture. So it was kind of degree doesn't really qualify you for a job in the real world. And I think the lecturers towards the end of our tenure, at uni, were like, we've got to prepare these poor blighters for, for the working world and the topic they've chosen to learn, it's not going to help with that. So I remember this last term, they really focused on getting us ready for the workforce. And one of the lecturers kept saying, you know, in the workforce, never advertise your ignorance, take the initiative, and, and I was like, okay, that's something I can take out of this, this three year degree, never advertise your ignorance. So I rock up on my first kind of couple of months at Oracle, who were one of the one of the largest technology companies, they certainly were, at the time. Everyone's speaking this corporate jargon, I'm not really sure what's going on very green kind of fresh out of uni. And when my boss was on holiday, after the first few months, this request came in to run an email campaign to some clients. So I got an email, as he was on holiday, saying potential revenue generating opportunity, we've got to get this email out to our clients and prospects. Here's some of the text. Let's kind of chat about it. And I was like, You know what, here's my opportunity to really take the initiative. And while I haven't run an email campaign in inverted commas before, I mean, I have Lotus Notes. I've got my laptop, I've got the list that they've given me and I've got this half baked copy. So I was like, I could take the initiative have this all done before my boss gets back from holiday and I was already kind of basking in the praise that was going to inevitably come from taking the initiative. What I didn't kind of take into account was, that was the completely wrong way to go about it. I had half baked copy that wasn't even kind of finished. But because I didn't really understand corporate jargon at that stage, it all just sounded like gobbledygook to me. So I was like, right, I'm just going to put the whole 900 client names in my Lotus Notes in the To field. So exposing all of the database clients to each other. And then I was like, what, I've got the copy, just whack that into the email. Now for the heading, well they've written potential revenue generating opportunity in their email to me, so I'm just going to put that in the heading, and send it out to all their clients fully visible of who we're working with, as well. So needless to say, when my boss got back from holiday, when the sales team found out what I did, they went ballistic. Luckily, I think this was before GDPR, because I'm sure sharing 900 client contacts with each other wasn't the best. But the lesson I learned from that is, don't always take the initiative. Sometimes it's really good to ask clarifying questions, and make sure that you fully understand the task and and what's expected of you. So that has stuck with me to this day.
Tom Ollerton 6:18
I'm surprised you've recovered at all!
Catriona Walkerden 6:21
It was 20 years ago. I'm only just getting over it.
Tom Ollerton 6:27
All that therapy was worthwhile, thank you for sharing this brilliant story.
Tom Ollerton 6:36
So that's a learning experience, let's call it but what's a great marketing tip that you've picked up over the years that you share most often?
Catriona Walkerden 6:44
Yeah, so I wasn't given this tip directly. But it's a quote that I love. And it's from the marketing cartoonist, Tom Fishburne. And he says, great marketing shouldn't feel like marketing. And so I try and live by that when I'm putting together whether it's content campaigns and events, like, how can this actually feel like a pleasurable experience and a gift that you're giving to the customer or the prospect as opposed to, we are corporate and we are giving we are doing this thing to you called Marketing and you're gonna endure it?
Tom Ollerton 7:18
I love that, how do you do it?
Catriona Walkerden 7:19
How do you do it? So I, despite the fact I'm not necessarily the audience, you know, we're gearing towards an IT audience. But I feel like humans in general, like to read things that are interesting that they don't read every day. Or if it's an event, you don't want to be sold to, you know, you want to actually have enjoy the five star surroundings that this organization's put on for you. But without having that horrible feeling like being sold to the whole evening. So. So I think it's it's taking a human first approach, as opposed to you are a prospect, you're a potential lead, and I want to convert you in, in the space of the campaign duration, which is six weeks.
Tom Ollerton 8:02
So how would you catch yourself doing it? Because I think that's a lovely point you've made. But yeah, you have hired like, a six star venue, whatever, you've put on some nice food that there's name tags, people have sat in chairs, like, surely they're sitting there going cool, and when's the pitch? When's the pitch? How do you make sure that they're not thinking that? How do you keep the romance alive?
Catriona Walkerden 8:23
No, it's, it's hard. And I won't say that throughout my 20 year career, I've got it right every time. But I think there's a balance as well, like, they know that they're at the behest of a corporation who has targets etc. So I think you can do it in a respectful way, where they actually get to enjoy, you know, the venue, etc. And then you kind of place in some of your experts that could potentially share some really interesting information and insights that bring an interesting conversation or dynamic to the, to the discussion, but without the heavy sell, like, you know, do you have budget do you have, so it's just avoiding that kind of hard clothes because that can happen outside the event or after the activity if the person's really showing an interest,
Tom Ollerton 9:07
So almost make marketing, marketing and not make marketing sales? Or am I just getting too carried away here probably. Anyway, this is fascinating for me and my own job, so I've maybe come off track a bit for the podcast.
Tom Ollerton 9:27
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Tom Ollerton 10:03
What we're gonna do now is talk about your shiny new object, which is sustainability in marketing. So I think it's clear what sustainability marketing is. But why is this your shiny new object?
Catriona Walkerden 10:16
Yeah, so for me, and I don't know about you, but sustainability has out of, you know, gradually, but then all at once become the unwritten mandatory brand value. So and I think marketing has a huge role to play in ensuring that we both shape the narrative and share our organization story and efforts in reducing carbon emissions, or whatever else it is that your organization is doing, on this journey to, you know, stop the planet, or kind of reduce the impact of the planet being on fire. So for me, this can go a couple of ways. As we've probably seen in the media over the last couple of years, there are some organizations who are doing this really well, working with credible, accredited organizations like science based targets initiative, to sit and work towards meaningful targets. And then you get the other side of the fence those organizations who are thrown to the wolves for greenwashing, and overstating claims, and it can make or break your brand. So you do want to be on the right side of that.
Tom Ollerton 11:20
And so who do you think is getting this right?
Catriona Walkerden 11:22
So an organization that I look up to... Well, I mean, generally, in terms of all organizations, I think nirvana is Patagonia, obviously, the founder of that just gave back all of his kind of profits, and I think signed the company over to all future profits going towards saving the planet, basically. And then from a product perspective, they use all recycled materials, they offer to, you know, mend the garments that they sell, instead of kind of getting you to buy new ones. So I mean, that's nirvana. And in the tech industry, you know, there's a couple of organizations who are doing really well. Siemens have been carbon neutral, I think, for the last six years. And they're building innovative solutions to actually try and help their customers as well. And that's something that Logicalis the organization I work for, is also on the path to doing so. Yeah, very excited about that.
Tom Ollerton 12:25
And so when does this need to kick in? Like, what if you're a marketer, and you work for a large FMCG, like Unilever or something like that, and you know, you've got a marketing budget and you're responsible for social channels. But you don't really have budget or time or authority to really make these changes. So how, how can marketers be more sustainable if they don't have the seniority or the influence to make a big move, like giving more profits back to the planet?
Catriona Walkerden 12:56
Absolutely. So there's a few things that that everybody can kind of start with, and depending on how close the marketer who's listening to this is to the kind of executive level and has a seat at that table. But I mean, some of the things that, for example, we started at the early stages, is really just kind of measuring the current carbon output, and you can work with a range of organizations to do that. Logicalis started reporting last year to the carbon disclosure project, I'm not sure if that cost you much or anything to do. And then setting a commitment with the science based targets initiative, because you can do a range of things that that will actually save you money like reducing your energy costs is obviously taking carbon out but also taking cost out of your business and moving to renewable energy, which may have a bit of an overhead when you kind of implement it but that then will be you know, save you tons of money in the longer term.
Tom Ollerton 14:10
Okay, and so here is do you really see is not doing this well, who do you think's fallen foul of trying to say the right thing, but actually delivering the wrong thing?
Catriona Walkerden 14:19
Yeah. So Well, a couple of organizations spring to mind. I think Ryanair got lambasted, I think it was last year or the year before because they had on their strapline "We are the lowest emission airline" or something like that. And the Advertising Standards Agency basically said there is no evidence to support this whatsoever, take that down, take away that tagline. More recently, the FIFA World Cup in Qatar so they kind of put out it's the first carbon neutral World Cup that's ever happened. But actually they achieved that by offsets which are a no no in the, in the kind of carbon reduction world. So an organization like the science based targets initiative, for example, would say that's not carbon neutral. You can't just plant a forest full of trees, and then just kind of pollute and go, Oh, that's fine.
Tom Ollerton 15:18
So help me understand why that isn't a solution for the people wanting to do this properly?
Catriona Walkerden 15:24
So look, I'm not a climate scientist, but what I gather from the sustainability lead that I work with is also like they are a big no, no, is you're not taking enough carbon out. Prevention is way better than the cure of kind of planting trees to absorb what's already there. So for an organization to really be on the, on the right side of that, they need to be looking at a netzero kind of formal commitment that, that looks at taking carbon out of their business rather than just offsetting it. It's kind of like, yeah, offsetting, you know, like, like, offsetting taxes by putting your money in a Swiss bank account, not really the right thing to be doing.
Tom Ollerton 16:12
That's a nice analogy. So one thing that confuses me a little bit, wonder if you could help me understand it, with all these things there's a first mover advantage, right, you know, so I think I've talked on the podcast before that, like BrewDog are carbon positive and Siemens, as you mentioned, being carbon neutral for six years, that there's a story in that that's its own message that's got its own cut through that's got its own press pick up. So is it just going to be a case that people, you know, people are gonna get hounded into it? No bad thing. But once everyone's doing it, does it lose all of its value from from it? Sorry, from a marketing perspective sorry.
Catriona Walkerden 16:49
Yeah, I don't think so, for a couple of reasons. So it's not going to be long, I think until this stuff is going to be legislated. So it's, it really gives you a heads up, you know, to to make that move now. First mover advantage is great, I think we've kind of, we're in the middle of a pack now. And then it's going to be the laggards that are going to be left behind. But I think for marketers, it's about as well, the opportunity to tell their brand story, but in an in a way that's actually really credible and transparent. Because, you know, even if you're just doing a small thing like switching to renewable switching to electric car schemes. You know, with more recycling schemes for E waste, things like that, these are all really positive things that will have an impact. And then it's up to the marketers to actually tell some of those brand stories, and I don't think they lose currency, the more people that do it, because you know, our customers are telling us there's a, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but there's three different scopes of carbon emissions. Scope one and two are really in your organization's control, like electricity, heating your cars, or the vehicles, etc, running the building. And then scope three, which is the really hard one to say that you're carbon neutral, are the ones in your supply chain and your organization. So the customers that we work with are telling us and they're kind of, you know, large enterprises that we work with on big IT projects, but they want to work with organizations that are working towards carbon neutrality. And so how we deliver services and technology to them matters, because we won't have customers if we don't get really clear on the scope three emissions. So that we can actually work with with these organizations for their reporting, because we're in their supply chain. If that makes sense.
Tom Ollerton 18:52
It does. And unfortunately, we're going to have to end the recording now, because we've run out of time. But I've learned so much from this, I feel schooled and educated and a bit humble and stupid that I didn't know a lot of these things. And so I'm sure that the audience will have also learned at least as much as me in this interview, and Catriona, I really appreciate your time. If someone wants to get in touch with you about sustainability and marketing or anything else we've talked about, where is a good place to get in touch with you, and what makes a great outreach message to you?
Catriona Walkerden 19:25
Yeah, so LinkedIn is a great place to connect directly with me. And yeah, just just let's talk about sustainability will be a good headline. And then you can check out our website logicalis.com as well for all of our content on our journey in sustainability and the blogs, etc, that we've put together as guidance for how to tell that story as a marketer.
Tom Ollerton 19:46
Fantastic. Catriona, thank you so much for your time.
Catriona Walkerden 20:02
Pleasure. Thank you.
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