Episode 208 / Stephanie Bonnet / EDF UK / Head of Corporate Communications
Podcast: Substack and the Rise of Personal Marketing: Building Trust and Making Money Through Authenticity
Stephanie Bonnet is the Head of Corporate Communications for EDF in the UK. In her varied career, she’s worked in PR with the WPP Group, she did digital PR for Adidas, worked with a law firm and eventually joined EDF in the UK in digital marketing. However, her current focus is not so much on “traditional” forms of digital marketing. Instead, her Shiny New Object is personal marketing - appearing as yourself on digital platforms and taking control of your content.
The way to build authenticity and develop an audience online is changing. Personal marketing - Stephanie’s Shiny New Object - is moving away from platforms and branding and developing a community around creators’ own voice and identity. Thanks to Substack, de-platforming is the new marketing strategy to adopt if you want to control your content and engage with audiences in a meaningful way.
For those who haven’t heard of it yet, Substack is an email newsletter platform. It allows creators - especially journalists and independent writers - to represent themselves online, build an audience, and monetise their content entirely under their control. For Stephanie, the growing popularity of Substack is proof of the development of personal marketing.
This is not the personal branding that we used to refer to when building a reputation and a CV in the beginning of one’s career. That represents the ability of one person to sell themselves, whereas personal marketing is the ability of that person to interact with one other person in an authentic and personalised way - and to scale that as needed.
It’s not influencer marketing, either. When people buy products advertised by influencers, they don’t actually buy “from” the influencers - they buy from a brand that the influencers have moulded themselves to fit. However, when buying from a creator using personal marketing, you are purchasing their own content and creating a relationship with the author.
Substack is offering creators the chance to create their own “mini personal media empire.” And it’s opening up different ways for brands to interact with creators - either by sponsoring them or by including them in PR efforts in the same way that they would build relationships with journalists. The audience a brand would then get access to is more engaged and targeted, since readers have to select a Substack to follow and they are each very specialised.
Find out how to get started on Substack, how personal marketing fits into the future of the industry, and more marketing tips from Stephanie on the latest episode of the podcast here.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Stephanie Bonnet 0:00
There's a tendency to, you know, change your campaign, change your strategy, change your tagline, but actually repeating the same message, which of course has to be true to your company's authentic value proposition. Sticking with that message repeated often really does reap a lot of benefits.
Tom Ollerton 0:29
Hello, and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of automated creative and this is a weekly podcast about the future of marketing and advertising. Every week, I have a call with someone from the industry use exciting, influential, entertaining, intelligent, all those things. And this week is no different. I'm on a call with Stephanie Bonnet, who is head of corporate communications at EDF in the UK. So Stephanie, for anyone who doesn't know who you are and what you do. Could you give us a bit of background?
Stephanie Bonnet 1:50
Yes. Hi, Tom, thank you very much for having me. So I spent 20 years in PR, in an agency in the WPP Group where I had position in strategic research and planning, knowledge management, and then digital marketing. And I then moved on to an advertising company working on the PR, the digital PR for Adidas, and then a global law firm called Linklaters, where I helped lawyers to use digital marketing for the business. And then seven years ago, I joined EDF in the UK, first as a senior manager for digital marketing. And then past few years, I've held position in the comms department.
Tom Ollerton 2:31
So in that very varied career, what has been the best investment of your time, energy and money?
Stephanie Bonnet 2:38
So I... probably all the expatriation roles that I had or positions... So I started my career in Paris, as you can hear, I'm French, but then I moved to London for three years. When I moved to New York for two years, I came back to Paris then I did about a year in Amsterdam, and then I'm now back in London. And that is the best investment of time and so on because expatriation is an amazing experience that really grows you as a person. But as you to understand the different cultures with different business contexts, and really helps you to work better, more collaboratively with people from all around the world. It's not always easy, actually, there are times are really, really difficult when you're homesick. But ultimately, it's an amazing experience. And one that really makes you a different person and a different professional as well.
Tom Ollerton 3:32
If you were gonna go to yet another country, what would be the thing that you would take with you as a skill that you could apply in a new market?
Stephanie Bonnet 3:42
That probably would be not coming in with any preconception, not thinking that I know anything, that where I am is new, is exciting, is neither better or worse than where I was before. And it's a new world to discover. So really, the ability to be open minded and ready to learn from anything, anyone new around you.
Tom Ollerton 4:08
I think that's a nice attitude to life in general stuff, Stephanie. Like meeting new people, I think it would be good ... anyway, I'm getting slightly distracted. So what is your top marketing tip? The thing that has stood you in good stead, although I'm fully aware that you don't describe yourself as a marketer.
Stephanie Bonnet 4:25
Yes. So, when this question is asked, I always think of what a very, very strong head of marketing and Head of Brand told me which is to say, seek with one simple message and repeat it often. There's a tendency to you know, change your campaign, change your strategy, change your tagline because you want something new and exciting all the time, but actually repeating the same message which of course has to be true to your company's authentic value proposition, sticking with that message, repeat often and for a long time, it's over the course of few years, really does, you know, reap a lot of benefits.
Tom Ollerton 5:17
So we're going to move on to your shiny new object, which is the rise of personal marketing. So I think I know what that is. But for the audience, could you give us a an elevator pitch for what personal marketing is and why it's your shiny new object?
Stephanie Bonnet 5:32
I mean, in the past, it's probably what you know, used to be called Personal Branding. But it's now the ability of one person selling to one person in a very authentic and personalized way. And the trend for people to buy from people, creators of the trust, rather than the corporations, there's probably been a little bit of people getting a bit tired of big and impersonal messages. Actually, I'm going to rephrase that I think the difference is that personal branding is one person you trust... Ah! I'll just say it one more time. Okay you'll need to edit that out! What I wanted to say is that personal marketing is not influencer marketing. So people may think that when they hear from influencers, they're gonna buy from them, actually, they don't, they buy from somebody who's really fitting the message of a brand, of a corporation. Whereas personal marketing is when you create a relationship, one on one, with an author, with an online creator. And as a result of that you develop trust, and you're more likely to then buy from them.
Tom Ollerton 6:49
So what do you mean by one to one in this scenario, just help me understand exactly.
Stephanie Bonnet 6:55
I mean, one example, I mean, one platform that really does well, that's why swell is Substack. So Substack is initially a newsletter platform, but it actually brands itself in a very successful way as enabling people to create their own mini personal media empire. So you have journalists, for instance, writers who leave their newspapers and create a Substack, and then regularly send newsletters and posts and it can be video and podcasts and so on. And people decide to subscribe to them to hear their own take on a topic or an issue. And it's really the people who subscribe it's their own choice to do that, you know, it's not... the message not pushed at them. They willingly go and and decide to read that person. And on substack, in particular, you can then comment, you can like and interact with the author. So that's how you create this very one to one relationship. And then later on if that person sells a masterclass has some new... sells a course, sells a book, sells an appearance somewhere because this relationship was created, then you're more likely to purchase from them.
Tom Ollerton 8:10
So it's just a different model whereby you say, Look, I'm not expecting to reach a big audience necessarily here, but I want to reach an audience that are prepared to pay for my content via written or audio.
Stephanie Bonnet 8:21
Yes.
Tom Ollerton 8:27
So who's doing that really successfully?
Stephanie Bonnet 9:07
So you actually have people who started, it's a US platform, right? So in the US, you've got some former journalists who have moved to Substack and make hundreds of thousands of dollars from people paying to read their content. Now. In the UK, one of the most popular person is Dominic Cummings, the famous former political adviser to Boris Johnson, possibly makes up 200,000 pounds from his substack. Their most successful person in the US is somebody called Heather Cox Richardson, and she writes a daily letter called letter from an American and there's an estimate that she probably has hundreds of thousands of subscribers. And if they each pay, you know $50 to $60 a year which is the average price, you can set your own price. That's, you know, $600,000 or more a year. So that's, that's really successful. And they're all as you can hear they're all individual person rather than corporation or brands.
Tom Ollerton 10:10
So is this really only monetizable if you've been given a platform elsewhere? Or are we seeing creators here who just are good at writing and start there? Or do you have to have some headwinds, either from a political party or from a newspaper, for example?
Stephanie Bonnet 10:27
So you've got every model, you have people who already had an audience on some of the platforms such as Instagram, yes, or Twitter, and then they move there. But you also have people who start from nothing, and then go up to I mean, maybe not a full income a year, but certainly a nice side income. And the platform concept is interesting, because you know, there's this, I don't know if it's a concept or trend, something that you read about, which is de-platforming, this idea of not being tied to a platform, not being tied to a system like Instagram, and to have to be a victim of the algorithm and actually not have control of where and how your content is being seen. And so with that kind of platform, you control your content, you control who comes to you. You can accept or decline as people want to subscribe, and so on. And to answer your question about, do you need to have an established audience to then be successful? There's another example of a lady whose name I can't remember now, but she, she is. She is somebody who writes recipes. And she started a substack about a year ago. And she had, I think, only 3000 or 4000 followers on Instagram, which is not a lot. And now she's got I mean, 10,000 subscribers in Substack. And she sells her recipes, and she's making money because on Instagram, if you've got 4000 followers, you won't make any money.
Tom Ollerton 11:55
Sure. And so I'm curious, how did you come across this? Because it's very different as a shiny new object. And thank you for that. It's completely new to me, I'm embarrassed to say, but why did it pop up on your radar?
Stephanie Bonnet 12:07
Well, I am an online creator myself as well, on the side. I've had a blog for...
Tom Ollerton 12:13
Is it your name on Substack?
Stephanie Bonnet 12:14
No, my blog is fromthepoolside.com. And it's about boutique hotels around Europe, because I love boutique hotels, I'd rather spend money on a nicer travel experience than on a nice bag. So I've been doing that for like since 2013. So nearly 10 years, started as a blog. Then I created an app. And I'm always looking at what are the different ways that I can connect with my audience. I've got a very small following on Instagram with about 1700 people. I did start a newsletter years ago. But it was really much more like email marketing. So you push things out, people get it in their mailbox, and that's it, it stops there. With Substack, you've got all these interaction features, as I say, like, the comments and likes which you like. But you can also have a chat like your WhatsApp. You then have people interacting, again, more with you than they do on Instagram or when they do on the blog. So yeah, so just for the exploration of different channels and tools that I can use to to keep sharing my love of boutique hotels with people.
Stephanie Bonnet 13:21
Do you mind me asking you how many followers you have?
Stephanie Bonnet 13:35
Where?
Tom Ollerton 13:35
On Substack.
Stephanie Bonnet 13:38
Coming up to 1000 subscribers.
Tom Ollerton 13:40
That's amazing, you'll be retiring soon to sit around pools in, in lovely hotels...
Stephanie Bonnet 13:46
No, because 1000 subscribers are... most of them are free subscribers. So what you do on Substack, you can either go completely paid or completely free, or some of the posts can be paid. So I... you decide what you offer for free and what you offer for a fee. And most people stay on the free plan, obviously, but you have a few people who will then get the paid offer and over time, if you increase your subscriber numbers, then you know, hopefully the proportion of people will pay for some of the offering will be sufficient that it gives you a bit more, bit more income. In my case, I don't do it so much for the money. I really do it because as I said, I like the fact that I don't have to worry about what is a new feature that I need to learn about on Instagram do I need to do more reels, do I need to do different stickers and be there every three days when to do a live or whatever. I don't need to learn how to game the platform. I just have my own platform. And I can decide how I interact with people and it's much more simple and yeah and authentic for my readers as well.
Tom Ollerton 15:06
What is your experience of brands on the platform?
Stephanie Bonnet 15:09
So yeah, so that's the thing. There's not many brands at all at the moment. It's really, that's why I called that personal marketing initially, because from my experience it's individuals, they may have come from big media corporations before, but they're really there as themselves not as the journalist from the FT or from the New York Times, or something, that's their own space. And I did some research, I haven't found any company yet that is using it. The way that possibly brands can start interacting with it will be or can be with some authors, I suppose, sponsoring some of them. So you can sponsor a newsletter for several months, or you can sponsor just a post, for instance. And a brand would do that by directly getting in touch with the author and agreeing the price. And so there's that and then the other way I think brands at some point may have to engage with substack authors, is by considering them as part of a PR effort that they do. So the same way you build relationships with journalists, you will have to be in relationship with substack authors because they will have certain audience size. And usually, those audience are not only more engaged, but also they're very focused and targeted, so you know exactly the kind of person you want. Because every author often has one topic, one industry, one angle, and therefore the audience could be especially interested in that specific area.
Tom Ollerton 16:50
So what advice would you give to someone who is thinking of investigating substack, either for themselves or in a work context?
Stephanie Bonnet 16:58
So I would say, first, to subscribe to a few to a few substack, just to you know, get familiar with the platform, with the way people use it, how it's marketed, how it's being developed. So that's first thing, and then you can just start your substack yourself very easily, very quickly. And you try, and then you ask a few of your friends and family to start following you. And then substack has some built in features that help to recommend new substacks to others on the platform. So there's a bit of a network effect where other authors may recommend your substack, you recommend them as well. And that's when you expose to different audiences. Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 17:47
What are the things that don't work on the platform? What do you see people trying to do when you think, Oh, that really doesn't work for me?
Stephanie Bonnet 17:53
The people who try to monetize a substack too quickly. So they create one, they do like two posts, and then the third post, boom, it becomes, especially if you don't have an audience first, if you have a big audience somewhere else, then yes, you can do that from the start. But if you're just starting, you need to build credibility and reliability with your audience. So you need to spend probably, you know, a good six months to a year just doing it for free, before you turn it on paid, and that year will allow you to understand what your audience needs, and what you can charge for. And it may not be at all what what you thought it would be. There's an author I follow on substack. She's a journalist from a women's magazine. She started for free. And initially she was I think making people pay for some of her books or something like that. And then she realized, actually, people were interested in her more on how she writes, on storytelling. So that's what she started to sell via some masterclasses, for instance. So yeah, start for free. Don't make the mistake of thinking that's gonna be a quick way to get money. Do it because you want to engage with an audience, because you want to express your voice, and then the financial reward will come later.
Tom Ollerton 19:13
So if someone was thinking of doing this, how possible would it be to repurpose content from another channel?
Stephanie Bonnet 19:20
It's very easy. Yes, you can. So I still have my blog, for instance. And so I sometimes take past blogs and adjust you know, copy and paste into the newsletter. You can take all your reels or videos you may have created on YouTube or Instagram, and you can make video posts on on substack and then in return, same thing so when you post things on substack, you can easily publish it on Twitter as well. And so it's being seen there too.
Tom Ollerton 19:56
Well. Thank you for educating me on a completely new type of publishing that I didn't know anything about. And I'm quite red faced about it. I didn't. But how interesting. And what an unusual podcast. So thank you, Stephanie. If anyone wants to get in touch with you to talk about this or anything else, how would you? Where's the best place to find you? Is it substack? or LinkedIn or Twitter? Where's your preferred place to communicate?
Tom Ollerton 20:17
Oh, yeah, probably would be either LinkedIn or substack. I'm Stephanie Bonnet on LinkedIn, EDF, and substack is fromthepoolside.substack.com.
Tom Ollerton 21:16
Brilliant. Stephanie, thank you so much for your time.
Stephanie Bonnet 21:21
Thank you very much, Tom.
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