Episode 211 / Eka Vankova / Experian / Product Marketing & Proposition Lead
Podcast: Leveraging AI for Optimal Customer Segmentation and Targeted Marketing
For Eka Vankova, Product Marketing & Proposition Lead at Experian, AI and machine learning can be invaluable tools for optimising customer segmentation and helping marketers create more targeted products and propositions for their audience. This is why that’s her Shiny New Object - and she tells us how she intends to leverage AI and ML in this week’s podcast.
Eka started out in studying international law but became charmed by the marketing industry, leading to a career of in-house marketing. She’s excited by the opportunity to really make an impact on a company’s revenue as a product marketer. Being closer to product decisions marries up with one of her top marketing tips - finding the best fit customer, without trying to sell to everyone.
As a firm believer in product targeting, Eka thinks trying to sell to all customer segments is a big mistake marketers often make. Instead, her advice is: “You need to understand and nail and know your target audience.” This enables marketers to influence product decisions so customers receive the most appropriate, targeted propositions for them. In turn, it creates loyalty and brings to life campaigns that resonate so much more. And, at the end of the day, it’s fine to say, “we are not the company for you” if someone doesn’t find your product to be a fit for them.
So, how do AI and machine learning help with the goal of optimal customer segmentation? For Eka, AI is a game changer when it comes to analysing vast amounts of data, identifying patterns and trends, and helping marketers create more accurate and sophisticated customer segments. Through machine learning, companies can develop an easier, more efficient system to make product recommendations and upsell and cross-sell to customers who have contributed their data to their system in the first place.
Some brands do this really well already. For example, Starbucks’ loyalty programme works so well that, even though she knows what they’re doing, Eka herself confesses to playing along with it most days and ordering the recommended drink from the app. Over time, AI analyses customer data, purchasing behaviour and preferences, leading to optimal personalised product recommendations and content. This can only strengthen the customer’s relationship with the brand, while enabling marketers to deliver personalised and timely propositions that sell.
Listen to Eka explain AI and machine learning in product marketing in more detail, as well as give her top marketing tips and suggest her favourite marketing book, on the latest episode here.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Eka Vankova 0:00
I feel we always quite often fell victim trying to sell to everyone. I don't think that works in marketing: you really need to understand and nail and know your target audience.
Tom Ollerton 1:09
Hello, and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of automated creative and this is a weekly podcast where I get to interview our industry's leaders to help us understand what's coming next and what their vision for the future is. I'm on a call with Eka Vankova, who is product marketing and proposition lead at Experian. Eka, for anyone who doesn't know who you are and what you do. Can you give us a bit of background on what you do now and how you got to be in this role?
Eka Vankova 1:42
Yes, sure. Hi, Tom. Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm really, really excited to be here. Just a bit about myself. I have been living in the UK for 10 years now, I can't believe it's been so long. I moved here initially to do my master's degree in international law. But then I got charmed by the marketing industry. And for the last 10 years, I've always been an in house marketing manager. Last four years I've spent in insurance and finance industries, shaping various communications and digital marketing strategies. And more recently, I have made a decision to join Experian. In the UK as product markets and proposition lead. What excites me the most about what I do now is the fact that I can really impact the revenue and the business, because now I'm in product marketing, I'm so close to all the product decisions as well. And I feel I can really, really impact the revenue perspective of the business.
Tom Ollerton 3:01
Are you a marketing book person? Do you read up on marketing stuff? Or, or you just make it up and see what happens?
Eka Vankova 3:09
You know, I think I'm quite a bookworm. I think I'm quite a new idea person. And I'm always looking for new things happening in the industry. There is so much going on. And if you try to catch up, you just can get lost so easily. So what I like to do is order an old fashioned printed book with hardcover if I can and then just read in the evening. So yeah, I love books on marketing.
Tom Ollerton 3:35
And what is your top marketing book? Which one do you find yourself recommending most often?
Eka Vankova 3:40
I would love to recommend you guys. If you haven't read it yet, a book called "Obviously Awesome," is by a USA based product strategist called April Dunford. This book is just about how to nail product positioning. So customers get it, buy it and love it. It has so much actionable insight, you can just go and implement. It also has a full strategy. If you've never done product marketing, in tech, finance or SaaS industry before you can literally learn so quickly. It has templates as well. It's very easy to understand. And it's very practical. It's not just theory. And that's what I love the most about it.
Tom Ollerton 4:22
So thanks for the tip on the book, that is noted. So do you have any advice for marketers? What is that one bit of advice that you got a long time ago or heard recently, that silver bullet bit of useful tip that you can pass on to people listening to this podcast?
Eka Vankova 4:45
Yeah. So you might have heard this tip a lot and I don't think I got it properly until like three or four years ago. The biggest and best tip I'm trying to action every day in the, in my professional life is try and test and find that best fit customer, someone who really cares a lot about the value your product brings, I feel we always quite often fell victim trying to sell to everyone. And I don't think it works in marketing: you really need to understand and nail and know your target audience. And understanding your target audience is crucial for effective marketing, because by knowing who your ideal customers are, their preferences, behaviors and pain points, you can really tailor your marketing efforts to resonate with them. It includes creating relevant content, choosing the right marketing channels and graphs and compelling messages that address their needs. It goes well together with product marketing aspect of my job, because I quite often do market research. So I'm analyzing customer data, and I get feedback from my audience. And this is essential in gaining insight and understanding how we should build products more than forward. Quite often what happens people work in silos and they create product-led propositions, forgetting about being customer first. However, I constantly remind myself and my team that we need to know our target audience, because it just brings more impact. It creates more targeted and impactful campaigns, and it just resonates much more. And it's fine that not everyone is going to like your product. Even if you are a big player in the industry, you won't be ideal for absolutely everyone. And it's fine to say we are not the best company for you. But if you want this, we can help you with that. And it's totally fine. Sometimes when I train salespeople, they feel uncomfortable saying that, but actually in the current world customers, they need that insight from us because we are doing our job day to day understanding the products and the competition. And sometimes it's fine to say we are not the best for you. But we are great if you would love to achieve that. And that's okay. And again, it's all about knowing your target audience and what works for them, and connecting with those customers.
Tom Ollerton 7:25
This episode of the shiny new object podcast is brought to you in partnership with Madfest whether it's live in London or streamed online to the global marketing community, you can always expect the distinctive and daring blend of fast paced content startup innovation pitches and unconventional entertainment from Madfest events, you'll find me causing trouble on stage recording live versions of this podcast and sharing a beer with the nicest and most influential people in marketing, check it out at www.madfestlondon.com.
Tom Ollerton 8:02
So that makes me even more interested in what your shiny new object is, which is AI and machine learning in the product marketing process. So tell me what that means. Why it's your shiny new object? And how that kind of ties into your tip about really knowing your audience.
Eka Vankova 8:21
Yeah, thank you. So I think everyone is quite going crazy right now about Chat GPT and other opportunities AI and machine learning is offering us. It's changing the industry very clearly, clearly. However, how can I apply it in product marketing? How can I really make the most of it? Well, I want to begin by saying that. Before diving into the specifics of using AI, there is like one principle I'd like to share. And I think it's quite helpful. So the principle number one is that don't be afraid to not use AI. Sometimes it's treated as this magic cure all. But if you can get good results without it, you can totally take that route, that's absolutely fine. However, if you are up for tests and learning and learning more about what's happening in the world of AI, I definitely think you should test and approach product marketing with AI.
Tom Ollerton 9:26
So how do you use it yourself? What's your process?
Eka Vankova 9:29
For me since I'm so obsessed with the best fit customer and knowing my audience, I use it quite a lot for customer segmentation and personalization. So AI and machine learning they can analyze vast amount of data to identify patterns and trends, allowing for more accurate and sophisticated customer segmentation. As I mentioned before by understanding customer segments better, product marketers, we can create more targeted campaigns and tailor product offerings to specific customer needs, resulting in higher engagement and conversion rates. And in practice what this means AI can analyze individual customer data, such as browsing behavior, purchase history and preferences to offer personalized product recommendations and content. And this enables me as a product marketing lead to deliver highly relevant and timely messages to customers, leading to better customer experience and increase loyalty.
Tom Ollerton 10:39
So based on a logged in customer, who's been to the website, who's used the product, he's received an email, you've got all of this kind of first party data on this person. And then you're saying that you use AI to then send new messages about new products based on that specific person's behavior.
Eka Vankova 10:59
Yes, exactly. It's quite, it's quite a big thing. And lots of other brands use it. Right now. For example. Amazon uses AI and ML algorithms to power its product recommendation engine, which offers personalized products to customers based on their browsing and purchasing behavior. You might notice it on the website when you shop yourself. And Coca Cola has used AI to optimize its social media advertising campaigns. I think it's completely mind blowing that you can analyze this large amounts of data on customer preferences, demographics and online behavior, and then you can create more targeted ads. We have heard recently that Google is releasing a new tool to create AI generated PPC ads, which is just like completely crazy, right? A year ago, no one would have thought it's possible to do so, to be released so quickly. And now. It's quite a shock for the PPC industry, we all are waiting for it. Another cool example of using AI in Product Marketing is Starbucks. Actually, they use AI to personalize its loyalty program, which I use pretty much every week, I'm such a marketing victim myself, because it's just ridiculous. I know what they're doing. And I still go and buy another Chai tea latte. Like, really, it's because they offer the tailored rewards and incentives based on individual preferences and purchase history.
Tom Ollerton 12:42
So jump back to the Google example. So this slightly changed a bit. It's new to me. So what are Google promising that this generative PPC writing will do?
Eka Vankova 12:53
So Google is promising that they are updating their Google ads platform with AI Generated Content suggestions, keywords and messages you can use for your audiences. So when you upload your customer audience, Google AI is promising you to analyze, analyze that audience and then create suggestions for them. So you don't need to manually enter the copy for the PPC Ad anymore.
Tom Ollerton 13:38
So let's like work through an example about how that would work. So travel insurance, for example. So you define your audience and your budget and all the rest of it, is Google then just going to say, oh, what? What's the name of your company? Why would know that anyway? Because if the ad account or so on so forth, is it just going to generate stuff? And you sign it off? Or will there be a row for a prompt, for example, you know, like, we're a travel insurance company, and we are a fun brand, or trustworthy, or the oldest or whatever. And the reason I asked this is because if Google's got all the data on, which words work for which audiences, then surely there'll be a point where the actual process of PPC becomes redundant. It's just what's the bid? Yeah, you bid on clicks. But you also even bid on the words, you know, like there's 400 Travel Insurance Company companies that all want to use the same word, but you've got to pay extra for it. Because we know it works.
Eka Vankova 14:32
Yeah, I think there is a big competition in that PPC space right now. It's not going to be just Google. It's other bots, which are going to be released in that space. And that's going to change the industry, for sure. So the way it's going to be working, they're going to automate bidding. So Google smart bidding, for example. It's already an AI powered automated bidding strategy, and it uses machine learning algorithms to analyze vast amounts of data, including user behavior, demographics, device type, and what's actually happening, they automatically set bids that are likely to result in the best possible performance for a given campaign objective. Another big AI thing is ad targeting. So AI can analyze your data and behavior to better understand the target audience and identify the most relevant segments for PPC campaign. Ad creation as well is going to be impacted. Because those AI powered tools can automatically generate ad copy, headlines, and even images now I think such as, ads you use and the creative elements you use for your campaign, and even ad objectives. So this can help in creating more relevant and engaging ads while also saving time and resources in that creation process. And then ad performance analysis. Yeah, another big thing is, and the concern is on ad fraud detection. So AI can be used to detect and prevent ad fraud, which is a significant concern in the digital advertising industry. There was algorithms, they can analyze various data points, such as click patterns, user behavior and device information to identify suspicious activities and fraudulent clicks, helping advertisers to protect their advertising budget and ensure that their ads are shown to genuine users. So that's quite cool. And yeah, of course, personalization... personalization of the ad copy, of the offers, like you said, recommendations based on user preferences, and then they get higher engagement and conversion rates leading to a better campaign performance.
Tom Ollerton 16:52
Yeah, I've been in the industry 10-15 years now. And this feels like the most significant quick change that's happened. There's been slow changes, like the rise of social media, kind of crept up, mobile, crept up, this kind of thing. And there's been a few challenges to that, whether that color voice or virtuality, there's no seem to be an even longer curve. But this feels like AI is going to change things quickly. And I think for me, the missing piece of data is whether it works better than the human only alternative, as you say, Because sure you can get AI to write copy all day. But is it any good? Is it on brand? Are you gonna have to sign off 200 copy lines, when you could have just written one yourself? So yes, AI can definitely democratize creativity and definitely make certain elements of advertising like instantaneous, or certainly around their bidding, and you know, fraud detection, all that kind of stuff. But I think that the data I haven't seen yet is whether it's AI on its own, AI with a human or just human on their own, that delivers the outcomes that brands want. So it's...
Eka Vankova 18:00
That's really intriguing. And there is lots of research now being done by like big banks and consultancies, like Deloitte, whether it's going to replace humans in certain roles or not. I personally think it has strong potential to automate certain tasks and improve efficiency. But I think it's designed to augment human capabilities rather than replace humans. I don't think it's gonna totally replace people, especially from a creativity perspective, like you mentioned now, and emotional intelligence. I'm sure it's, it's also in processing and analyzing this data. But it lacks the creativity, it lacks the intuition, and emotional intelligence, and many tasks such as strategic decision making, or critical thinking, or complex problem solving. They are better suited for humans. And I think it's good to save time, quite often when it creates a copy of what you're, but if you're not experienced in the area, and you don't understand what you're talking about, it's quite hard to just use AI, you'd still need those years of experience quite often or your talent or your creativity to make sense of it. So yeah, I think just a very amazing time saver for for some tasks.
Tom Ollerton 19:20
You're absolutely right. It's a very exciting time in the industry. So hopefully, we'll both have a job this time next year, who knows.
Eka Vankova 19:28
Very good point. Yes.
Tom Ollerton 19:30
Eka, thank you, my favorite subject and I love your passion and your knowledge and experience and ideas on the subject. So if someone wants to get in touch with you, where can they do that? And what makes a great message to you?
Eka Vankova 19:42
Yeah, I'm always open to meeting new people in the industry. Feel free to reach out to me on my LinkedIn. I would love to have a chat. See if I can share some advice with you or just hear you out or just meet you. I'm always learning and love to meet new people. So yeah, just let's connect on LinkedIn.
Tom Ollerton 20:03
Fantastic. Okay, thank you so much for your time. Thank you.
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