Episode 210 / Lucrèce Sicat / Amazon / Head of Creator Marketing, Europe
Podcast: Making the Most of Creator Commerce
Influencers, bloggers, or creators - we’ve all been exposed to them and we all let them influence us to at least consider a brand, if not straight out buy their product or service. Lucrèce Sicat, Head of Creator Marketing, Europe, at Amazon, tells us why creator commerce is actually her Shiny New Object and how brands can make the most of this avenue towards consumers’ hearts and minds.
The strength of content creators is that they have a loyal and engaged audience that values their output. With this in mind, Lucrèce thinks that creators offer unique opportunities for engaging with a target audience. As they curate product recommendations for an audience they know better than any marketer, creators can support both performance based and brand based campaigns.
For brands looking to increase awareness and consideration, creators offer a direct line of communication with their target audience. However, those brands need to be very clear and very focused with their objectives. Having multiple goals, from awareness to sales and beyond, dilutes the value of a creator commerce project. Focusing on one aspect that can be defined and tracked by both sides is the way to succeed.
Lucrèce also thinks that going small is sometimes better. Sometimes, those voices that don’t have a huge number of followers hold significantly more sway with a targeted, niche audience. They are respected by a specialised group of consumers and they maintain their credibility through this specialisation. Therefore, marketers who have a very good idea of their niche target audience stand to gain lots from collaborating with content creators.
For Lucrèce, the new voices that have so much influence on consumers are forcing a marketing rethink. They symbolise a shift in the traditional approach to sales and are driving a more authentic and targeted approach to marketing.
To find out more about creator commerce and hear Lucrèce’s three-step programme to succeeding in collaborating with creators, tune in to the latest episode here.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Lucrece Sicat 0:00
Some of the people that have more power to drive sales are actually have a very small following. And it's all about the fact that they have a very engaged and niche audience.
Tom Ollerton 0:16
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Hello, and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of automated creative and this is a weekly podcast where I get to interview someone from the industry who is inspiring, intelligent, informed and has some great experience. And this week is no different. I'm on a call with Lucrece Sicat, who is head of creator marketing at Amazon Europe. Lucrece, apologies about your pronunciation have done my best. But anyone who doesn't know who you are, what you do, can you tell them how to pronounce your name, but also how you got to where you've got to today?
Lucrece Sicat 1:49
Hi, Tom, thank you for having me. My name is Lucrece Sicat. I'm the head of creator marketing for Amazon in Europe for their associate program. I've been working for the past 10 years across, you know, agencies and brands. And now I'm within Amazon. I studied before literature, and then marketing. And I'm sure as you can tell from my accent, I'm actually French. But I've been based in the UK for over 10 years now.
Tom Ollerton 2:21
Fantastic. So a lovely range of different places to work. And congrats on the role at Amazon. But I'm guessing you broke a few eggs on the way there? What is that work fuck up that you hated yourself for making? But actually, in retrospect, you're glad you did?
Lucrece Sicat 2:38
Yes. I think my biggest work fuck-up was taking a position actually I wasn't passionate about. It also ended up being my I think biggest learning. But that's also how I learnt what I love. So to give you a bit more background, I started my first job was at Elan in Paris, where I was a junior consultant within the new business development team, and so was working with, you know, brands on launching products or rebranding. And after a few months, I started working with L'Oreal on the Cannes Film Festival. And I think that's where I really got kind of like a step or foot into the industry of content creators and you know, working with celebrities and influencers. And after this position, I actually decided to move to London. And to continue, you know, my studies and I did a master. And there and after that join a company called like to know it, which is a kind of like a global technology platform that connects brands and content creators. So I was there on the brand side working with brands to really streamline and align their strategy across all the departments, managing accounts, as well as doing some campaigns with influencers, whether it was for ROI, traffic, brand awareness, new customer acquisition, you name it. And after a few years at rewardstyle, it was time for me to make a change. And I remember at the time, I was applying for several brand marketing positions. But I actually ended up being hired for a position in a logistics department. So it was still new business development. So I really felt it was you know, at the time close to my expertise, although it was a different industry. And I think that's where I realized it was really the wrong choice for me. Think all I could think of was, you know, developing new marketing concepts and doing new campaigns and, and that was not my job at all. So something was really missing, and I think I was really unhappy. And the thing is, I've always been very passionate about my work, but I could see the passion wasn't there anymore. So I knew I had to make a change quite quickly and luckily I found a position within the same company heading the social media and influencer team for Amazon fashion actually, and I really found my creative creativity back, you know, working on, on still developing the business. But that also led me to my current position. And I think the fun fact on this is that I remember when I was 15 years old, I didn't know what to do with my life, like most teenagers. And my mum actually brought me to see a family friend who was working in advertising at the time. And I remember telling him that I wanted to do something creative, but I wasn't an artist, I wanted to do something also business related, but I didn't want to work in kind of like sales or being a lawyer. And at that time, I think we didn't really talk about marketing in school. And this person looked at me and started to tell me about the fact that each morning, he would take a different road to work, and his wife would be very annoyed. And essentially, his advice based on that story, which was very strange to me at the time was, you know, sometimes in life in order to find who you are, you need to get lost. So of course, at the time, I didn't get what he was trying to say. And I was even more lost after this. So it actually took me like a decade to understand, you know what he really meant, but actually was still right for me, when that choosing the wrong job allowed me to understand what I really wanted, and where my expertise and passion lied. I was actually lucky to work with an Amazon at this time, because they allowed me to change from one job to another. But yeah, it was biggest pick up but biggest learning.
Tom Ollerton 6:35
I love how an agency guy dropped a whole load of agency BS on a 15 year old and they didn't get it for 10 years. There's another truth in that somewhere isn't it?
Lucrece Sicat 6:46
Exactly. So too creative for me, maybe.
Tom Ollerton 6:57
Thanks for being so honest about that. But I'm also keen to know what is your top marketing tip? What is that bit of advice that you find yourself sharing most of and has stood you in good stead?
Lucrece Sicat 7:06
I think it's a hard one. Actually, it seems super simple. But it's a hard one because I do receive a lot of advice. But I think in my day to day job, there are two tips that are really helping me, you know, scale the impact of my campaigns, I think the first one is really about automation. I think marketing overall is a broad topic. But you know, whether you're working on acquisition, like engagement, growth, all three things, you really need to ensure that you have the right automation process and the right tracking and reporting, of course, but especially if you're operating across several countries. So typically, an example of that would be you know, in one of my roles, I was sending some emails to new creators who joined an affiliate program to educate them. And then I was, you know, at some point, I realized, great, like, if I'm sending the email in May, you know, all the creators that have joined before that will receive it, but what about the creators that are joining in June? And so I started working typically on semi automated email series that would be automated or like that, you know, the creators will receive after two days, 15 days, 30 days after joining the program. And so that's, you know, a typical example of how you can really find ways to be more efficient to scale across different countries. In my current role, I'm looking at 10 different marketplaces. But also being more efficient, so that you can focus on on kind of like other projects as well. And of course, making sure that you have the data to analyze, you know how well this is performing.
And the second one, it's a very Amazonian one, but it will be it really changed my way of working. And it's to move away from PowerPoint, or Keynote or whatever you're using, and start writing documents instead. So I think it's super easy. We've been used on using PowerPoint whenever we want to create a new project. And it's very visual, and don't get me wrong, I'm still using it sometimes. But I think it's also very distracting from the information that you're trying to share with your audience. On the other hand, when you're writing a document, you really you have a way to organize a bit more your thoughts and kind of like convey your messaging in a more structured manner. So I think it gives a bit more clarity to the audience. And I mean, believe me, it's way harder to put a strategy in a one page document because you need to write down you know, your objectives, why you're doing this, how you're going to achieve it. But I think it also allows more kind of like exploration of you know, your ideas, your concepts, but also you can include any kind of like evidence and research. So yeah, I think writing a doc versus a PowerPoint really allows you to stay focused on your message, but um, sure that your ideas are communicated clearly and effectively.
Tom Ollerton 10:03
So tell me more about that. No one's talked about this on the podcast, it's fascinating. I've heard whispers about this kind of stuff at Amazon. So give me an example of when you would write a document? And how would you go about that? How long it is, how long does it take you? How is it critiqued? Because obviously, PowerPoint is the kind of school uniform of advertising, isn't it? So I'm interested to learn a different way of working.
Lucrece Sicat 10:26
It is. So every time I would start a new project, I would actually start by writing a document, and it doesn't need I think the best documents are not the ones that are, you know, 15 pages long. Because again, I think it is harder to you know, to write a one pager or three pager. And the idea is really to focus on kind of, like, remove all the, you know, objective or subjective because, typically, if you're saying it's going to have high impact, you know, it can mean different things for for different people, right. So instead of using big impact, or high impact, actually try in your doc to put a number next to it. And it's way harder than it looks, but at least it really allows you to stay focused on okay, what is the big impact? What, you know, what number am I talking about? And how am I going to track this as well. So, whenever we're starting a project, we always write this doc, there might be, you know, several people as well supporting the doc, from your team or from, you know, external teams. And then I think seeking some feedback from other teams as well on your project is where having a work doc is really helpful. Because they can tell you that, you know, maybe your data are wrong, or maybe, you know, there is a way to automate, typically the project that you're talking about, or a new tool that, you know, could allow you to do that, basically to reduce the timeline. So I think it's a way for us to connect all together, but also, when you're talking about a postmortem, so like, how well did your campaign perform, right? It's easier to then go back to your doc, and then see everything that you set up and look at what are the learnings in terms of because you would have to you know, put together what the process looks like etc. So it's really easy once you have your Word doc for the project to then tie your postmortem and see what needs to be changed. But of course, you know, having a Word doc means that it's not just for you, it's also a good way to share its ends. I think just to add on that if you're sharing a PowerPoint, sometimes with you know, people that have no clue what you're doing, it can be very hard for them to understand what you're talking about, where you're going. And that's how you should structure your Word doc to make sure that whoever is reading it, they can really understand it.
Tom Ollerton 12:50
Is there a specific structure or template?
Lucrece Sicat 12:55
Everyone has their own but definitely like, you know, overview, what are you going to... What are you trying to achieve? What are your objectives? You know, what are you going to track and then we always go back to the customer first. So like everything, you know, in the project overview, it's always about how is it going to have benefits? You know, your end goal is to benefit the customer. So how is it going to benefit your customers?
Tom Ollerton 13:19
Okay, look, this isn't what we were planning to talk about. But thank you, it's been a real treat. And often on this podcast, someone says something and my brain goes: how do I do that? Thank you for indulging me and anyone listening to this. I apologize for steering the ship in the wrong direction a bit but hopefully that was of interest.
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So shiny new object time. Your shiny new object Lucrece, is creator commerce. So anyone who's been around in marketing a while could probably guess what that means. But I want you to be specific what is creator commerce and why should the people listening to this podcast believe it could be their shiny new object?
Lucrece Sicat 14:35
So creator commerce is all about content creators, so content creators, they basically have a strong following on social media or you know, any publication online as well. That really trust their opinion. So they essentially create curated products recommendation and their content drive either like awareness, brand loyalty, you know can alter your shopping habits. So it's supporting both... creator commerce is supporting both, you know, performance based and brand based campaigns. And I think what I'm really passionate about is the impact of, you know, creator commerce and those new voices that are emerging everyday via so many different channels that I believe are really forcing ourselves as marketers to a marketing rethink. I think the reason why it's interesting from a marketing perspective is that they really represent a shift in the traditional approach to commerce. So I mean, our generation, you know, we've kind of like grown up with, you know, the first content creators, we were used to calling them, bloggers, now we're some of them are calling them influencers. But we also realized that publishers are also, you know, using kind of like links on social media to make their audience purchase. And I think before, you know, we were seeing like brands and retailers that were selling their products directly to the customers. And we're shifting to a model where individual content creators, however you want to call them influencers, they're really empowered to create now and sell, like, curate almost what they choose to promote directly to their audience. So from a marketing perspective, it means that we need to adapt kind of like our strategies. And we need to adapt in creating a more kind of like authentic and personalized approach to reaching customers across new platforms, new channels, and I think this happens in three different ways, mainly, but there's so many things that we're learning every day. But I think the first big takeaway is how to communicate with your audience as a marketer being authentic. So content creators, they are often for example, celebrated for their authentic voice, right, like they have a unique perspective, you follow a creator, because you relate to this person, you're inspired. And so you're interested in their point of view. And so it really resonates, you know, with consumers who are increasingly looking for content that is actually genuine and relatable. And I'm not saying that... the datas are saying that, you know, if you look at how much is expected the Creator Commerce Industry to grow. And so it means that really brands, they are rethinking their marketing strategies to incorporate more authentic storytelling, but also partnering with influencers or publishers that have a genuine interest for their products. I think it's also crucial, you know, to ensure kind of like long term success of a collaboration in general. But also, I think the second point is that it also raises the question about personalization, right? And niche audiences. With content creators, we've seen that they're skilled at engaging with their audience on a more personal level, they're actually creating a sense of community, they're engaging with them, they're interacting with them. And so their followers are actually very loyal to their brand as people. And they're really passionate about what they talk about. That's why everyone is looking at engagement. Right, right, like how much consumers or followers are engaging with the content that the content creator is, is posting online. And so I think, as a marketer, again, it means that we're, we need to think a bit more about how we can personalize the messaging, and engage with customers on a more one to one level. So for example, using technology to, you know, target certain cohorts of customers with a certain messaging, rather than I think a more one size fits all, messaging or campaign. So broader campaign.
Tom Ollerton 18:44
Sorry, just to have to pause you Lucrece. So go back. So explain how that works, right. So someone who's new to this might be saying, Okay, you get a creator to work with a brand in an authentic way and they create a video or some content, and everyone sees it, but what you're saying is no, you need to personalize, you need to have a different message for each audience or a different message for each person. And tell me a bit more about how that works and how you'd actually deliver.
Lucrece Sicat 19:12
Yeah, definitely. I think it's, it's super, it all starts with the data. And because whenever you're working with a content creator, you need to understand who the audience is, what are their interests, and you have, in order to do that, either you're working with an affiliate platform where you can see the data or you can use a lot of third party tools that enable you to see a bit more to have a bit more data on the followers of specific content creators because for example, you know, if you're a fashion brand and, you know, high end fashion brand, you want to make sure that you're working with the right influencer, for example, that has this niche audience to talk to your customers. So it all really starts with the data in order to understand who to work with and then And I think the beauty of content creator is that usually the campaign that performs best is the ones that are using this data first, and then giving the freedom to the content creator to write, you know what they need to write about. So not necessarily being very prescriptive, because at the end of the day, you're working with a creator, because you want to reach their audience, and they know better their audience because they're interacting on a daily basis with them. So we'd say, you know, when you share a brief with a content creator, leave them kind of like the freedom of creating what they know will resonate with their audience. And then when they are using affiliate links to like track links, basically, on stories on their YouTube on any kind of platform, you can actually track the success of your campaign. So you can see how many people click on the link, you know, how many, how many people purchased the product, etc. And so what I'm saying in like, being more personalized, and reaching out in your audience is that it's not necessarily working with the biggest influencers who have, you know, 1 million followers, plus five millions, whatever you want, it's really looking at making sure you're working with the right person for your right messaging that will convey that to their niche audience. And actually, you know, when I look at that, I can see that it's, I know, it's always surprising for a lot of brands, but some of the top converters as in some of the people that have much more power to drive sales, or actually have a very small following. And it's all about the fact that they have a very engaged and niche audience.
Tom Ollerton 21:46
That's interesting. With our work at Automated Creative, one of the things that we've noticed across many of our brands, many of our categories is that influencers can be great for driving consideration. So I am a person who is influenced by Lucrece, for example, and you say, I like this product, you should go and check it out. And I go, because I like you, I will go and look at it. So I will consider it. Yeah, but I won't necessarily make you convert.
Lucrece Sicat 22:11
And I think that's all about the data that you're looking at first, right? Like, because I think creator commerce is all about this, you have so many types of what people call influencers, you have celebrities, you have, you know, kind of like trendsetters, but you also have ecommerce influencers, that are creating this habit, and it's, you know, there's a lot of work behind as well, because they need to create the habits of you know, their followers, clicking on the products, knowing where to find the right products. And I think now, because there are so many new tools and new platforms that are emerging, it's easier for them to actually create the link. And, you know, make sure that they're adding that on a daily basis, on a regular basis to their content as well. But that's, that's also a lot of education, us, you know, educating influencers and creators, but also the creators educating their audience, and I'm sure if you follow someone, I'm sure you follow a lot of people on on Instagram or Tiktok, or Twitch, you know, if you know where to find the products, then it increases the conversion rate as well. Because you might have seen something, you know, on the contents from a specific content creator, like three months ago, and you didn't buy it, but then you you know, remember it, you want to find it back. And so having this link, you know, make sure that actually, if you want to purchase it, after three weeks, you'll be able to find it.
Tom Ollerton 23:35
So what's the best way to get started with creator commerce from a brand perspective? So maybe there's some brands listening to this, who have thought, well, we should probably do this, but they're really you know, how? What, what are the first three things you should do to set you up for success?
Lucrece Sicat 23:51
I think the first one will be make sure that you're putting in place some tracking, because if you don't have the tracking, it's going to be hard for you to you know, actually see what the success of the campaign is. So whether you're already working with an affiliate marketing platform, or you're setting up your own tracking, some you know, some brands are doing it in house, and they're, you know, setting up their tracking manually. Or you're working with any other platform. I think that's the first starting point, because from there, you will see be able to, to access any data that you need to. And the second one is whenever you're looking at creating a campaign, again, whether it's with influencers or publishers or any publication as well. I think it's really about making sure that you're very clear on your objective. So a lot of time, I've seen so many brands coming to me and saying, you know, I want to do a campaign because I want to raise the awareness but I also want to kind of like change the brand positioning, but I also want to drive sales and traffic. And I think it's super important to kind of like define your objective, being a bit more mindful about your objective, what is your primary objective, if your primary objective is to drive sounds, then you need to look at creators that are driving sales for your competitors. For example, if your primary objective is brand awarness, then follower number might be important for you, and then the engagement rate of his specific content creator. But all of this to say that it changes a lot, how you're, you know, how the impact and the success of your campaign. And then the third one, I think, is really about understanding what came out of the collaboration so often as well. You know, brands are working with content creators, it's generating impressions, but they're not necessarily deep diving into how did... how was it, you know, perceived from an audience perspective. And so, again, if you have an affiliation platform, if you have this data, and then you can understand a bit more your audience based on that, and then continue to test and evolve. But you know, having a very, I think it's important to have a very clear and honest conversation as well about influencers or content creators, publications, as well. And being very clear on what your expectations are. Because at the end of the day, it's you know, it's a collaboration, it's a partnership... It's a win win, you know, if this is successful, it's a win win for everyone. So I think it all starts with after being set up on the right tool, it all starts with having a brief that is very clear.
Tom Ollerton 26:35
Well, unfortunately, we're over time here. And that's my fault for asking too many questions before. But if someone wants to carry on talking to you about creator commerce, where is the best place to get in touch with you? And what makes the best message to you that gets you to reply to them?
Lucrece Sicat 26:50
And definitely, I would say LinkedIn, and the best way is to say, you know, what you're interested in and, and talk a bit more about yourself as well. I think that's very important.
Tom Ollerton 27:03
Fantastic. So Lucrece, thank you so much for your time.
Lucrece Sicat 27:06
Thank you, Tom.
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