Episode 222 / Ed Couchman / Spotify / Head of Sales, UK & Northern Europe
Podcast: We’re Going Through an Audio Revolution
For Ed Couchman, Head of Sales, UK & Northern Europe at Spotify, now is the time to improve creative effectiveness by incorporating audio in your marketing plan. His Shiny New Object is “Sonic Science 2” - a new study by Spotify following up on their previous report. It shows us how digital audio is more engaging than most other media and why it’s a marketing environment to explore.
Ed’s worked in digital advertising since the early 2000s, having held roles at UK media owners like Channel 4 and the Daily Mail, as well as at Facebook and Snapchat. While always working in audiovisual media, his recent move to Spotify has highlighted just how important and fruitful audio can be for advertisers.
“We are in the midst of an audio revolution,” says Ed, with lots of new formats and ways for audiences to get engaged in. In the UK, 1 in 4 people listen to a podcast every month and Spotify counts as many as 26 million active users every month. There’s never been a better time to seize on context and attention, while bringing in the sophistication of digital advertising to audio.
For Ed, this means following a method of 3 Ms: mood, moment, and mindset. Music and audio in general is an incredible mood booster and Spotify’s research indicates that ⅓ of study participants feel happy or cheerful after listening to their favourite songs. The moment (or context) is also very important: people are listening to podcasts, audiobooks, or a favourite playlist while exercising, but also walking their dog, cooking, doing household chores, and so much more.
Finally, the mindset piece is quite important and combines with the moment people listen to Spotify to create excellent digital advertising opportunities. For example, someone may be cleaning their house (moment), thinking of cleaning products (mindset) while listening to a murder mystery podcast. What better moment to tie in a blood stain on the carpet in the podcast, to a seamless ad about carpet cleaning products, which will blend into the listener’s life subtly, but effectively?
This is the sort of work and research going on at Spotify, with the ultimate goal of increasing marketing effectiveness and efficiency. There are opportunities for audio to be used widely by smaller businesses with lower costs, but high impact. There are also numerous opportunities from the world of generative AI, creating curated playlists and using an AI DJ, among others.
Tune in to the full episode to hear Ed talk about his favourite marketing books and learn more about sonic science and the audio revolution in marketing.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Ed Couchman 0:00
We know that marketing is in the business of trying to get people's attention. But equally as Spotify, we really try and bring in this sort of sophistication of digital advertising to audio for the first time, so my nugget is bring audio into your media plans.
Speaker 2 0:18
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Tom Ollerton 0:40
Hello, and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of the creative effectiveness ad tech platform, automated creative, but I'm also the host of this podcast which interview some of our industry's leaders each week about their journey and their vision for where they think the industry is going. And this week is absolutely no different. I'm very proud to have this person on the show for the second time. And it's Ed Couchman, who is head of sales UK & Northern Europe at Spotify. So Ed, for anyone who doesn't know who you are and what you do, can you give us a bit of background?
Ed Couchman 1:12
Hello, Tom, and hello to all the listeners. It's fabulous to be back. I think it was over three years ago, Tom since I was last on the show. And it's great to see your show go from strength to strength. I've been at the Spotify band for the last six months. And prior to that I had a six year stint as general manager for Snapchat in the UK. And prior to that I worked at Facebook for six years. And then also a number of other UK media owners, notably Channel Four and the Daily Mail. But in short, been in digital advertising since the early 2000s.
Tom Ollerton 1:49
Right, that is a lot of experience. So I'm curious to know, do you have a marketing book that helped you propel your career and knowledge through that period?
Ed Couchman 2:00
Well, firstly, Tom, I'm hopefully not telling your listeners that how old I am. But I like to think of as experience. But there is a book I think that stands out to me. And it's a book that I kind of really referenced to particularly new people into the industry, people that want to sort of dig into marketing in this sort of power of marketing. And that's the, which I think is a famous book by Byron Sharp, called "How brands grow." And it is a seminal piece of work. I think it's over 10 years old now, actually. But it's the first sort of real empirical study, analyzing the sort of the maths behind, or data behind how brands grow. And I think it is that linking marketing to business outcomes, which really set it apart at the time. And if I just have another book, it's not a book, it's just a name, check an author, anything by Malcolm Gladwell as well would also stand out to me as a must read.
Tom Ollerton 2:52
So let's go back to how brands grow. And I'll be honest with you, that's definitely the most mentioned book on this podcast, but not for a long time. So if someone's not a book reader, and wants to absorb the three main points in that, but what would you say that they are?
Ed Couchman 3:04
Do you know what I think I would distill it down to just a couple of points, maybe one standout point that brands grow by physical availability. So being on shelves, essentially, will be an easy for consumers to buy. And through mental availability, and mental availability is all about advertising, to make sure that your brand is front of mind when people are making a decision about what to buy. And that is the power and potential of advertising. And that's why I recommend it. And I think it is a cornerstone. And you know, there have been some challenges to some of those findings over the years. But personally, I still think they hold true.
Tom Ollerton 3:40
So I was listening to a podcast that was sort of also marking the 10 year anniversary of the long and the short of it by Les Burnett and Peter field. And one of the arguments that they make in the book is that actually digital isn't very good at building mental availability. And it's more of those long form emotional formats, such as TV and above the line platforms that deliver that. So curious to know where you sit when it comes to that debate.
Ed Couchman 4:05
Yeah, I think it's an old raging debate, isn't it as well, particularly now, I think, where you see a large amount of marketing investment going into basically short term driving sales, essentially immediate sales, as brands and businesses look to maximize their returns for shareholders. So it's very interesting. I would take a little bit of an issue with it and feel that it's not quite as binary that I do think it's what's the right blend of and so thinking about how traditional brand building channels so broadcast channels can work alongside digital as well to do both things, but I don't think it's quite as binary and I think it's about what's the right blend.
Tom Ollerton 4:50
So, you've told us a couple of books or a couple of authors, certainly but what are your top marketing tips? What's your favorite nugget of advice that you find yourself sharing most often?
Ed Couchman 4:59
You know what, obviously, I've been at the band for six months. So I'd have to say, Bring digital audio into your media plan. Allow me to just unpack that a little, because I appreciate it might be a bit self serving. But I, historically as you know, when I share my experience, I've always worked in audio visual mediums, essentially. So this is the first time that I've actually worked purely in audio. And one thing I've been really taken aback by, is that we are in the midst of a audio revolution. So there are so many new formats and ways for people to listen. And I would ask you, Tom, to reflect to maybe your listeners. And actually, I think, you know, we're on a podcast, podcasts are 10 years old. And obviously, there's been a huge explosion in podcasts listeningship, not just because of the pandemic. And because we've seen many of those behaviors continue afterwards. So right now we have one in four Brits listening to a podcast every month. Spotify in the UK, according to comScore has 26 million active users every single month. So there's a huge listenership and audience. And you know, we know that marketers are in the business of trying to get people's attention. So we have that sort of audience to get people's attention. But equally as Spotify, we really try and bring in the sort of sophistication of digital advertising to audio for the first time. So my nugget is bring audio into your digital into your media plans.
Tom Ollerton 6:21
Right? I will let you get away with them. Given your job title and your nature, but I think you've argued a fair point there, right? So we're now getting on to your shiny new object. So you have chosen something called Sonic science 2 which to me sounds like a film. But I'm fairly confident it isn't. But could you tell us tell the audience why Sonic science 2 is your shiny new object? And what is it?
Ed Couchman 6:46
Of course, I agree with you, I think it does make a really good film name, actually. So the sort of hypothesis or our ambition for the study really was to try and better understand how listeners engaged with audio content on the platform. Essentially, we wanted to really unpack how people think and feel when they are listening to audio content. So we partnered with some great research partners, some really intelligent people to try and help us unpack that. And we really wanted to build on the first installment, the first film, Sonic science one, where we essentially found that digital audio Spotify are much more engaging and more immersive than many other media channels, particularly social media, and TV and radio. And we had this sort of sense that people are bringing audio into their lives all the time, and Sonic science to really sort of back that up that essentially, is the soundtrack to everyone's day, all of the time. You know, and again, if people sort of self reflect from maybe walking the dog, or reading a book, cooking, doing household chores, studying, but essentially that we found that 63% of all of the study participants really found that Spotify was a crucial part of their daily routines.
Tom Ollerton 6:46
And what surprised you the most about the report? What was in there that you were like: That's uncomfortable or unusual? What was the thinking?
Ed Couchman 8:11
Again, for me, what's what stood out as again, being new to audio is I always had this perception that audio was something that was in the background while you're doing something else. But actually, it is often center stage in people's lives that actually is in the foreground that people are actively listening. And not only that, but and this is, I guess, my personal sort of highlight of this study. Is that how Spotify is a mood booster. So a third of all study participants said they felt happy or cheerful after listening to Spotify, whilst a quarter to 25% of people thought they described themselves as feeling calm. And this sort of halo effect of providing sort of good vibes or positive energy, I think can really be extended to the advertising experience as well.
Tom Ollerton 9:04
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Tom Ollerton 9:41
So you got a decent sized audience, and you've got this emotional channel, it's kind of almost front and center in people's lives or certainly front and center in those kind of small passive moments, shopping or travel and so on. And I work in sales as well. So what was the challenge that you have in selling this in like, what? What is the common rebuke to you, given that you have this report with all this data in?
Ed Couchman 10:08
Yeah, that's a really good question because it's one that I've been wrestling with, as well, since since my arrival, I think there's a perception that digital audio is very similar, or serves a very similar role on the media plan to traditional radio. And that essentially, is cost effective reach and low barriers to entry and low production costs. And it's just a pure reach play. And how we're trying to overcome that is by talking, yes, that is the case, you know, we do reach that huge audience, 26 million monthly active users. So it can be a very effective reach tool. But then we also start to talk about how the sophistication of digital, I think, and one way we look to frame that is around the three M's. So we can reach people in there sort of the mood they're in, essentially. And if it's not maybe their mood, it could be the moment they're sort of in as well, that could be exercising or doing yoga or walking the dog, and then maybe their mindset as well. So mood, moment and mindset. And we use that as a model to sort of bring together the sophistication of what digital audio can offer, essentially.
Tom Ollerton 11:18
So what do you think is going to change with digital audio and your products in the next year or so, what are you expecting to say, "Yeah, I told you so" if we had this conversation this time next year?
Ed Couchman 11:30
That's a cracking question. I was so focused on trying to bring the sort of sophistication of digital. And I think one thing, the first that we try and do is to have a better grip on measuring effectiveness and efficiency. And we actually launched just around Cannes actually a product that we call Spotify advertising analytics. And essentially, that's a free tool that we offer all advertisers to better understand how their campaigns on Spotify are working. And it's a way to demonstrate effectiveness. And I think doing that is the first thing we need to do to advertisers to demonstrate value, essentially. The longer term journey, though, is around thinking and acting more like a platform. And we are investing significantly in what we call ad studio, which essentially is a self service tool. And that self service tool will allow advertisers to many of them will be familiar with that from other digital platforms. But it's around enabling advertisers to purchase inventory based on their objectives. That could be reach, it could be installs, it could be purchases, but essentially allowing advertisers to buy inventory based on their own objectives, their business objectives, not just media metrics.
Tom Ollerton 12:46
And so looking at Sonic science, I'm flicking through the deck as we speak. How is the business using this research to shape its own offering?
Ed Couchman 12:56
I think it really goes back to how we're using it to sort of spike or increase people's curiosity in order, particularly on this feeling of how it creates a positive vibe. You know, you never ever hear people say you've listened to too much music today? Well, you might hear that around screen time, you know, you'd be the screen. And I think we're trying to demonstrate how audio can have a positive impact and be a sort of genuine mood enhancer on people's lives. I think that's a key message we're trying to land as well as trying to tackle some a question that we hear a lot from marketers as well. Well, what additional things can audio bring to my media plan? Why would I take something off my media plan to book digital audio on and I think that sort of mood mindset moment thing helps us create those arguments over and above the cost effective reach.
Tom Ollerton 13:45
So let's go into the three M's at the minute. So mindset is fascinating to me. And I'm sorry for maybe not having enough media understanding from an audio perspective, but I understand what mindset means but what does that actually mean to how a brand uses your platform to hit their audience? So I'm a senior marketer, I'm gonna write digital audios popular media mix, how do you then use the mindset insight to help them target?
Ed Couchman 14:16
Yeah, sure. So essentially, we take people's listening habits history, and draw some conclusions from their sort of like tastes and preferences. Perhaps one of the best illustrations I'm going to use is from a leading FMCG brand that creates home cleaning products, essentially, and this is a great way which I think they have, one in every three UK Homes has this product. So it's a very traditional product, mass market product. And I think what they're trying to do is to build a greater relevance when the routine is happening. So basically, someone's cleaning their home, and often music or podcasts is the complement to that. And we would use that mood mindset moment piece to try and identify what are the playlists people are listening to when they might be cleaning their home, or what are their podcasts they're listening to. And we have some real fun with the creativity here as well. An illustration will be listening to say, a true crime podcast. And the ad will be brought from this FMCG brand. And it might be stain removals for maybe some blood on the carpet to try and have a little bit of humor around. It's a true crime, you might be cleaning up a murder scene sort of thing, and have that sort of little bit of fun and playfulness along with the sort of relevance of what you're listening to at the same time. So essentially, the time to answer your question, it's about taking people's music listening history, that wonderful algorithm that we have that kind of brings new music to people and sort of using that to fuel some suggestions for targeting for brands.
Tom Ollerton 15:51
And where do you see the impact of generative AI and voice impacting your space? I saw a demo on LinkedIn the other day for human beings called Tesla. And there was an automated Tesla bot that spoke and I would say ever slightly too slowly. I knew that it was fake. So I kind of heard it. But you could fast forward how, you know, six months a year, however long that you would get all of the natural inflections of a voice and the different tempo changes, depending on what the nature of the conversation was. And I know that's customer service. And that's, that's kind of off to the races, that whole game. But how is that going to affect ads, are we going to see far more dynamic ads from you guys, where I'll get adverts in the north, northeast accent and you're getting from wherever you're from, helped me understand how you see advertising, or digital audio advertising being impacted by some of the technologies that are becoming very apparent in more AV platforms.
Ed Couchman 16:52
I think first, I will just take a step back and think about how AI is going to impact the platform full stop, we actually launched a new launch a new project called AI DJ, I'm just going to try and do a quick demo live. If I can?
Tom Ollerton 17:05
Please.
Speaker 3 17:07
I know what you listen to. I see Stacey Kent there. So I'm going to be here every day playing those artists you got on rotation going back in your history for songs you used to love. And I'm always on the lookout for new stuff, too, just to push your boundaries a little bit. I'm going to come back every few songs to change up the vibe. But if you're ever not feeling the music, there's going to be a DJ button at the bottom of your screen. Tap that and I'll come back early to switch it up. All right, enough talk I mentioned Stacy...
Ed Couchman 17:32
You probably got a flavor, that's that was AI DJ, is actually using generative AI from a Spotify employee, actually. So hopefully that gets over that sort of human question you mentioned, Tom. And really what we're doing is using generative AI to bring a curated playlist, just as we might do in Discover Weekly, for example, but bringing that to life with a human voice based on all your sort of previous listening habits. embarrassing for me, that was Stacey Kent that the DJ mentioned, which is a easy listening jazz artist. So that really is a little bit of an insight into me, which I didn't plan to reveal, Tom, but I'll leave it there. That highlights how we think AI can really benefit the listener and the sort of wider Spotify community and really enhance our product, our offering and our service.
Tom Ollerton 18:22
But that's the platform that how has that technology affect the ads? Yeah,
Ed Couchman 18:26
I think it's going to be a really interesting sort of journey for us around how AI might be used to create some advertising as well. Right. So I talked previously about those additional benefits of audio, one of them being a sort of low cost for production, you know, if you're going to create a car chase, for example, in a audiovisual ad, that's pretty expensive. But you can use sound effects and the power of imagination to do that really easily. And I think those tools are going to be democratized and enable more brands, even small businesses to start using audio. And if we coupled that with the self serve platform, and democratizing access to our entire industry, I think those two things can be really powerful together.
Tom Ollerton 19:10
Yeah, I think so too. Unfortunately, we're gonna have to leave it there. So for anyone who wants to get in touch with us to talk about this, how would you like them to do that? And where's the best place to reach out?
Ed Couchman 19:19
Oh, good question. I'm going to be quite traditional, actually, Tom, I'll say LinkedIn. You know, I do try and respond to all the messages that I get in LinkedIn. So if anyone would like to get a hold of me or drop me a line, then please feel free to and I'll get back to you.
Tom Ollerton 19:32
Brilliant. Thank you so much for your time.
Ed Couchman 19:33
Yes, Tom. It's great to be back and all the best for future episodes.
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