Episode 163 / Jack Calderwood / Anheuser-Busch InBev / Head of Pulse at draftLine Europe
Podcast: Seizing the Interactive Marketing Opportunities of the Metaverse
As Head of Pulse at draftLine Europe, Anheuser-Busch InBev’s in house agency, Jack Calderwood is always looking for unplanned opportunities for their brands across all channels and media, including what he calls the next version of the internet, the metaverse. This is Jack’s Shiny New Object, with its interactive, engaging potential for brands to connect with consumers.
Jack confesses that he’s always been drawn to launching new things and working in new spaces. He launched his own rum and ginger beer brand with a partner, pitched it locally and made the most of its learnings at the time, so he’s no stranger to going into something new and learning on the go. And that’s what he’s now doing when it comes to building a presence for the brands he manages, in the metaverse.
So, what does the metaverse mean for Jack and what are its potential opportunities? If you think of the internet as something we look at, to which we all have access, the metaverse is the next phase – a version of the internet we can all partake in. With virtual and augmented reality on the rise, this might sound like it’s always going to be a completely immersive experience. However, as Jack explains it, people will be able to engage with the metaverse in different ways, since it’s really made up of decentralised, interconnected and interoperable spaces.
A good example would be the fashion world and how brands in that industry can succeed in the metaverse. Virtual fashion items can be made available to buy, just like in real shops, for digital identities. Those characters can then enter different virtual worlds wearing the items they bought. Our digital identities are going to become more prominent and we’re curating them ever more carefully, with socialising also moving away from brick-and-mortar pubs, bars and restaurants to virtual spaces, where brands like Budweiser and Stella Artois can make an appearance. The question, according to Jack, is: “How do you stay relevant in this new world?”
For something to be truly in the metaverse, it has to be underpinned by blockchain and technology that allows consumers access to interoperable digital assets. We’re not really at that level yet, but brands can start edging towards it with digital marketing initiatives like a recent project launched by Budweiser, where consumers can buy tokens to support artists, in return for future access to exclusive content. Or, it can be something more immediate, like a recent collaboration Jack talks about with Zed Run, an esport horseracing game where AB InBev used AI to give horses particular traits, for people to buy and race them, linked to Stella Artois’ brand assets. This gamified experience was a short-term limited edition launch, but a great example of how less obvious connections can be made with the metaverse, as long as the brand wants to do something authentic in the space.
Listen to Jack talk about how to succeed at digital marketing in the metaverse and get his top marketing tips and stories, in the full episode here.
Transcript
The following gives you a good idea of what was said, but it’s not 100% accurate.
Jack Calderwood 0:00
It can seem like crazy that people are spending this much money on digital assets. I think I should in this context that feels a bit more relevant because the game and you're playing in it, sometimes people kind of struggle to understand the value in that. But really, from what I've seen, projects that succeed have like a level of utility that's baked into what you're buying. So in this case, for us is a horse that you can play in a game.
Tom Ollerton 0:27
Hello, and welcome to the shiny new object podcast. My name is Tom Ollerton. I'm the founder of automated creative and this is a weekly podcast about the future of marketing. And every week or so, I have the pleasure and the privilege of interviewing one of our industry's leaders, and this week is no different. I want to call with Jack Calderwood, who is Head of Pulse at draftline Europe, AB InBev. So Jack, for anyone who doesn't know who you are, and what you do, could you give them a bit of background?
Jack Calderwood 0:54
Sure. Hey, Tom, good to be chatting today. I currently work at draftline, which is AB InBev's in house agency. I've been here for a few years. And I look after a team called the Pulse team, which is essentially a team that focuses on social and digital and spotting unplanned opportunities for our brands in Europe. And some of those brands are the likes of Corona, Budweiser, Stella Artois, they're some of the, what I would consider the most exciting beer brands we have in Europe at the moment. And my previous experience, I started off actually, as a strategy consultant at Accenture working in kind of the digital space, looking at how to transform the industries. From there, I moved into advertising, specifically working with a lot of alcohol companies. And then yeah, I found myself in the role that I'm in today.
Tom Ollerton 1:55
So in that career, what has been your best investment of your time, energy or money?
Jack Calderwood 2:01
So I think there's, there's kind of one main thing that comes to mind. And I'll probably talk about some things linked to that as well. But when I left strategy consulting, and moved into advertising, I set up a drinks business on the side. So I was looking for a project that would give me some practical experience, I'd spent a lot of time working in the strategy space, which was all very theoretical, which is great, but you don't often so you get to see the application of your work. You know, you kind of finish at the PowerPoint delivery phase. And I really wanted to see, you know, how I could follow through on an idea. So yeah, I started this business called Lost Roots, which is a rum and ginger beer brand. And kind of did that with a mate outside of work. When really, it was just a kind of a great experience, because you had to do every kind of part of part of the work. So from setting up a legal entity, thinking through all the finance, to the branding, to the rollout strategy to then actually going and selling the product once it was eventually made. And all the setbacks in between. It was just a really great experience. That, you know, was a fun outlet on the side of work, but also ended up really helping me in the current role that I'm in.
Tom Ollerton 3:31
And what happened, did you sell any?
Jack Calderwood 3:33
Yeah, so I think the process was a long one. So there's a lot of ups and downs in actually creating the product. The first person we worked with to develop it ran away with our money. And I think at that point, it was really we were kind of like, is it really worth doing this? Like, why are we even trying to trying to set something up, but we, we kind of persevered found a new developer, worked on the drink, worked on the branding, got some really great people to help out. And then we started selling in and around East London. So I think we ended up getting listed in about 20 places, the bars and shops. And I still really remember the first day being super nervous carrying, you know, a bag full of these bottles into corner shops and pitching for the first time. And it was unlike you know, pitching to senior people, senior people in companies. It was like just a really foreign experience.
Tom Ollerton 4:32
What was your pitch?
Jack Calderwood 4:33
My pitch was basic. I live in the area and I set up this new drink and we'd love to stock in your store. We think that people are going to love it and we were organizing a big launch party in the in the pub around the corner. So we think it would be great if you had some of this in stock post that launch and there's a lot of people were super receptive to it and what we would do is we'd go from like door to door, split up the areas around, you know, me and my co founder would go basically knocking on different doors and spread that out. And we then just basically, come back at the end of the day, see how many we sold. And then if we had, like, got into any big pubs, we tried to send our friends down to buy some immediately, kind of get sales going.
Tom Ollerton 5:28
So sorry, just step back one second, let's see so you went into an off license and you, you say, Do you want to buy some cans and they buy like 10? Or five or 24? How did that work?
Jack Calderwood 5:37
They typically take like a crate, which is like 24. You know, often you'd go in, they'd say, they'd be like, my manager's not in, as you'd end up coming back. But really, these guys are very receptive to, to what you're trying to sell in. And they just asked, you know, like how much they're selling for. Some of them are obviously not interested. But they're really just keen to stock local products when I was doing it. But they don't want like a fancy sales pitch. So I wasn't going in and kind of giving it you know, it's made with these premium ingredients, and X y&z that it was much more kind of straightforward.
Tom Ollerton 6:19
And so I'm just, I'm fascinated what happened next. So you sell to them? What happens next? Do you do a George Clooney and sell to Diageo for a billion? What was it?
Jack Calderwood 6:30
Yeah, I mean, I wish I wish. So basically, we had one fatal flaw, which is we made the drink into glass bottles. And where we thought we'd grow the brand, the most was in kind of trendy rooftop bars that had a need for kind of quick service, quick turnaround drinks, and they didn't necessarily want to make cocktails during a kind of a busy service. And we quickly found out that rooftop buyers don't stock glass bottles, so they're asking for their own cans. And I guess if you have any familiarity with the drinks industry, now a lot of products go straight into cans. But when we were doing it kind of small scale accounting, we just didn't have the the money saved up to do it. So we kind of had our one shot with these bottles, really just found like we were doing alright, we're selling or selling while people like the product. But we just weren't making enough money to really give up our kind of day jobs to pursue it. So it kind of got to a point where we're starting to we were sounding things. But is it? Is it enough to quit our jobs. And we both felt at the time, like, there's been a great experience was really exciting. But taking that risk to kind of go all in, we just didn't feel that we were ready at that point. And I think now, kind of looking back with kind of having more experience in the industry and working more in the space, it was probably the right decision. Even though the RTD category has massively grown. In the past few years, I think we probably weren't ready in kind of kind of lifecycle of our careers to do something like that, just because we didn't have enough, I guess, relevant experience. And I think now, having helped launch brands in my in my current role is a bit more of an understanding of like, Market Fit market size. And actually, the kind of big learning for me is, you know, if you want to launch a product, it's great to do with your own funds. But it's even better to do it with an investor that has that experience and can kind of you can both bring things to the table.
Tom Ollerton 8:57
So there's so we never say never right that we might we might see Lost Roots come back.
Jack Calderwood 9:03
Yeah, definitely. I think there's, there's, yeah, there's a lot of learnings in that. In that experience. I think it was a really fun one to do. And that was that was kind of what kept us going. It was never like a chore doing it. I mean, there's definitely setbacks, but it was really just like a fun side project. And I did learn a lot about things like branding, things like margins selling pitching, you kind of lose all of the fear of, you know, talking to people about an idea or your or your product. I think that's great, a great skill you can kind of bring in later on and into your roles.
Tom Ollerton 9:41
So what would you say was your top marketing tip that you learnt in that period that you've, you've brought forward into this role?
Jack Calderwood 9:50
I think speak to more people speak to as many people as possible so, you know, I think we felt we had spoken to people and by people I mean like industry Experts and experts can range like an expert in this context could just be a bartender or someone that works in a really busy pub. It doesn't need to be so formal and businesslike. And so I'd come from this quite traditional background of doing strategy consulting. So I felt like I had a lot of the information on speaking, I'd spoken to a lot of business people about the idea, but really, who I should have been speaking to is like pub, pub managers and people within in that space to understand more, and that would have probably unlocked a lot of insight. Before going all in. See, I think that'd be my my top marketing tip. If you're trying to launch new products speak to a lot of people in the industry. When I say industry, people actually working in it. I thought I'd I'd spoken to people in the space. But when you start pitching your idea, every day two like 10 plus people, you realize you actually can get a lot of useful information through that process. And so yeah, that'd be my my tip.
Tom Ollerton 11:11
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So I don't know how we're gonna do this, but we're gonna move on to your shiny new object, which is the metaverse, which seems like a bit of a stretch from what we've just talked about, but I will endeavor to make some link but which maybe there isn't. But so the metaverse is your shiny new object. What is that? In your eyes? How would you describe that to this audience?
Jack Calderwood 12:10
Yeah, I mean, I guess there's not necessarily a natural link, apart from, I guess, in my experience, or my career, I've kind of been drawn to launching new things and working in new spaces. When I was when I was in consulting, it was artificial intelligence as an advertising. It was, you know, learning about branding and to launch my own brand. And then in this past, kind of couple of years, in this new role it's been launching digital innovations and new creative ideas. And that's what kind of brought me on to the metaverse and what the metaverse means to me. And this is probably going to be a very simplified definition, because it's quite a complicated thing is if you think of the internet as something we look at. So, you know, we all we all have access to it. We've all experienced it. The Metaverse is kind of the next phase in that where it's actually this version of the internet that we partake in. And then we're, you know, able to get inside doesn't mean we're always going to be inside of it. But you see people either the rise of VR and AR and people actually being able to engage with the internet in different ways. So yeah, that's what it kind of means to me. It's kind of this next version of the web. You know, people talk about it, we'll call it like web three. And for me, what was interesting is it's like a new way of engaging with the Internet. And yeah, I think from a more technical perspective, the metaverse is a network of decentralized, interconnected and interoperable places. And they can exist within a digital, digital and physical realm. And I think, you know, a lot of people think of the metaverse as the matrix or, or if you've seen the movie, or read the book Ready Player One, this kind of virtual Utopia you can plug into, I think we're, we're a long way off from that. But it's, you know, the, it's the basis, let's say, the technical layer that kind of underpins that dream. So that's what the metaverse is, to me. It's a pretty complicated topic that I'm definitely not an expert on yet, but have had some experience working in for the past few months.
Tom Ollerton 14:43
So I'm keen to know more about that experience. What's the opportunity for brands other than ticking that innovation box? How can brands take advantage and do something meaningful as opposed to tokenistic at this point?
Jack Calderwood 15:00
Sure, I think is an interesting question. The, the metaverse in some ways, represents, like, a variety of opportunities. And obviously, it's going to depend on the brand, or the industry you're in. So, you know, if we look at fashion, there's a clear overlap there. Between the kind of physical businesses that fashion houses are running and fashion brands are already very familiar with, and the virtual, and fashion space that's emerging. So you know, gaming is already massive, there's billions of people that game, every day and Gen Z, and kids and adults, you name it are buying in record numbers, clothes or skins for their characters in these virtual worlds. So it's very clear that there's an opportunity for that industry in this space going forward. Because, you know, people care about their digital appearance now, probably more than ever, and it's only going to keep increasing. As you know, Facebook has become meta, and you know, avatars, kind of, you know, our digital identities are going to become more prominent. So how we look and how we come across new spaces, is going to be the, you know, there's an opportunity there, and there's a behavior that's already kind of ongoing within the world of gaming, that's going to translate and transfer over. So I think that is a very clear opportunity for something like an alcohol brand, or an alcohol business, you know, what we're interested in, is socializing. So, you know, socializing is, is moving from physical spaces, like pubs and bars and restaurants, to virtual spaces. I don't think it's ever going to be replaced. But it's interesting on the last that you've got millions of people interacting, socializing in these spaces, and how do you stay relevant in that new world, I guess, is kind of the question and what is the role of a brand in that space? And that's what we've been kind of trying to figure out as a business. And I think it's an interesting question as well to, to look into.
Tom Ollerton 17:34
So maybe it's a definition thing for me, but where I get quite confused as I was having a chat with a guy called Arthur O'Neill, who works on the futures team at Mindshare, pretty sure I got his name wrong. But I was, I was saying, Well, look, how do you define the metaverse? You know, when's it start and stop? And he said, Oh, you know, like, he's an Oculus, wanting to play something in Rec Room, which I did. I played paintball or something, and was really impressed by how great it was until I've been in VR for probably four years. And I was like, alright, this works. This is really smooth. And then and on the way home, I was on the train playing paintball, on my mobile. So was I in the metaverse, then, while I was on the train, or only when I became immersed and that I think that's what aggravates me is that which point does it become? Stop being the internet and just starts to become the metaverse or am I just am I looking at it the wrong way?
Jack Calderwood 18:29
I think it's I think it's a good point. And I think the metaverse is becoming a bit of a catch all term. So you know, you hear people talking about Metaverse, or meta or web three and you can hear them link things like cryptocurrency, NFT gaming, all to that one topic. I think, you know, Facebook's even tried to rename itself Meta and kind of claim it. But I guess the for something to really be truly in the metaverse, it should be underpinned by kind of blockchain and that technology, which allows you to have interoperable digital assets. So what I mean by that is, if I buy some digital shoes, the dream or the vision for web three in the metaverse is that one day, I can wear their shoes in different games. So if I'm paintballing in your game, I might then go into a horse riding game, and I'm wearing them still, I'm still wearing those same shoes. So I think what we'll see is we'll have some spaces that are open and interoperable. So you'll be able to go from game to game and keep your digital assets and you'll have more closed loop and games, or spaces or places to interact. But yeah, the definition of the moment is, I almost want to get get hung up in the definition. I'd be more excited by this kind of it's the first time you can have ownership of digital assets. And then what does what does that mean and what is the potential of that. That's at least how I see it.
Tom Ollerton 20:01
Yeah. So the whole ownership of digital assets thing I think is so exciting, I was in a band for many years, a deeply unsuccessful one, but back at that time, the only way I could make money was I can get a record deal highly unlikely I could be a top end session musician, I can play in pubs, or I can busk, I think I sort of loosely like that. Whereas now, like, there's an opportunity, if you build a fan base, then you can make your album as an NFT. There might be enough people to buy it to sustain you. But as a career, you know, without you needing any of the normal things that I think as an artist, that's just the most exciting thing. And it's so brilliant if they if it continues to work in the way it promises to. But how does that work for brands like Mark Ritson sort of came out very recently, sort of slagging off the whole idea that I think marketers should get back to work instead of focusing on NFTs? Well, I know that you have specifically done some work in that area, is that something you can tell us more about?
Jack Calderwood 21:00
Yeah, definitely. I think it's, it's interesting, you, you raise the example of artists, I think, what is interesting the space is it allows people to collectively come together to fund projects in ways that was previously very difficult to so you know, Budweiser actually just launched a really interesting project around new up and coming singers and musicians, and you can basically buy tokens to support them. And then you can, in the future, receive kind of access to exclusive benefits and things like that. And I think there are other examples where there's kind of communities forming around supporting artists, or you see artists releasing their albums, people can buy them as entities. So just think it's like really exciting way that people organize themselves, to fund their kind of shared passions. So there's, that kind of space is super interesting.
And then I think if you're a brand, if you're kind of paying any attention to online communities and digital communities, and the different kind of subcultures that kind of operate in that space, it kind of makes sense to, to consider, you know, what's your role, so I talked about gaming, but there's loads of examples. If you ever go on TikTok, there's so many, you know, different subcultures and communities, and they're really active. So I think as a brand, you need to find the ones that are most relevant to you, and the passion points linked to your brand. And then go okay, if my brand is linked to, you know, sports, how does that translate if all of a sudden people are saying, No, games and eSports and watching, you know, spending more time watching people play FIFA than they are football in the real world? And then how do I take that and create a program or create a partnership that can see my, my brand or product into that space? You know, you're evolving with the times, and I think, you know, I'm a big fan of Mark Ritson. But I do think he's potentially ignoring the fact that, okay, there's a lot of hype, and there's a lot of projects that won't work. But realistically, what it comes down to, there's a bunch of communities and people, that are gathering, and getting excited about different projects. And I think, you know, if you're brand new, you should, you should pay attention to that. And, yeah, I had some experience. In this kind of year, that's just come by, where we launched a collaboration with a company called Zadran. And they are basically a world first esport horse racing game. And what they do is this might sound a bit bonkers, but I think that's what makes it so fun and exciting, exciting. They have created this game where there's a say, for example, like 10 different breeds of horses, and they use AI to give all those horses different traits. So similar to how horses in the real world have traits that you know, they're fast, they're great jumpers, whatever. And then people can buy them and race them, and they kind of compete for different parts of money. So is this kind of like gamified experience where people can and part of the game. So we saw that as a great opportunity for Stella Artois, who have a long standing partnership with one of the world's kind of leading horse races. We basically did this kind of innovative campaign where we just wanted to test and learn a little bit more about the metaverse by, by working with, you know, a well respected partner in this space. And we, we released kind of limited edition collaboration where we had 50 Stella Artois horses, and we put them up for auction and people could could buy them. They were named after, you know, things within our brand world, you had like a horse called Chalice, or...
I'm trying to think of another name, it's gone. But yeah, all named linked to, to kind of different aspects of our brand world. And people can buy these horses to then raced them in the future. And then we also had, we developed kind of like a custom race track in our signature life twice. So it's like a really exciting thing to be part of quite a unique partnership, but just as experimenting with, you know, appearing in a space where consumers are moving into. So I think, really interesting project to be involved with the back end of it, it's super challenging, you know, a brand going into a space like this is completely new, the technology is new. So there's a lot of challenges there. But yeah, that's that's kind of one of the projects I've been working on.
Tom Ollerton 26:47
So. So you you ran an auction for these horses, and then people could buy them. And did you? Did you set the price for that? Or is it like, was there a starting price? How did that bit of it work?
Jack Calderwood 27:00
The market really determines the price. We didn't. Yeah, there was no set price, I think the total in sales and generated about 1 million at the price of Ethereum. During that period. For any crypto fans, no, know Ethereum has had a bit of a decrease in recent weeks, to say the least. But yeah, so it was open to bidding, the the main thing that really determines the price is the rarity of the horse, so some horses are rarer than others. And that's kind of what determines how much people are willing to pay for it. But it can seem like crazy that people are spending this much money on digital assets, I think actually in this context that feels a bit more relevant because the game and you're playing in it. And there's, you know, you're there's a competitive element to it. More traditional entity projects where you're just buying, you know, what can be seen as like a JPEG or a digital photo. Sometimes people kind of struggle to understand the value now. But really, from what I've seen, products that succeed have like a level of utility that's baked into what you're buying. So in this case for us, it's a horse that you can play in the game. It's an engaging, it's an engaging game, if you've seen like, boy, a yacht club, they are these series of 10,000 uniquely generated apes, and people buy them. I think now because there's a huge hype around it. And there's lots of celebrities that bought it. But actually the core, there's actually a very engaged community. And they're trying to build something there for people to take part in. And those are the projects that typically I've seen to do best.
Tom Ollerton 28:49
And so will you guys repeat this? I mean, made a million quid, or I don't know if you cashed in the Ethereum at the time or not. But, you know, is that like, that seems to be a pretty good return on investment for a marketing campaign. In my experience, does it is it like alright, cool, we'll do this for, you know, all the other beers across the portfolio? Or was it just like, well out just one quite well, let's not do that again.
Jack Calderwood 29:16
No, I mean, I can't I can't really go into the details of what we're doing. But I think, you know, if if you followed Budweiser, we've launched, you know, two Metaverse projects in the past kind of six months. And then again, it's all about you know, we want to create a community around these digital assets is, in a way I guess an evolution of Facebook groups and things like that. So yeah, there's gonna be more projects to come. I cannot say talk about all of them, but I don't think we're not looking at it as a one off and quick cash cow. It's about finding the right partners for us. That can help us, you know, create long term programs that, you know, help us build our brand. And, you know, we want to we want to be where consumers are. And I think that's the lens that we look at it from.
Tom Ollerton 30:15
So what would be your advice to a brand who wanted to get into this space, but maybe didn't have the the adventurous spirit of you guys or the budget to take care of what is a complex back end and getting a project like this line?
Jack Calderwood 30:32
Yeah, I think the first thing to figure out is, do we have the capability to work out the legal and financial implications of running a Metaverse project? And will there be enough upside of figuring out and doing that? And then I think if the answer is yes. Then it's about doing something authentic in the space and not just trying to sell, you know. Quick, turnaround digital assets is actually okay, what can I build with either community of creators, or, you know, other interesting partners, whether it's artists, filmmakers, they're just, there's just so much opportunity in the space to work with interesting people. And so yeah, what can I build that will bring real world value or utility to a group of people, because that's really what it's all about. It's not really about just making money. And the projects that are just focused on that I don't think will succeed. So you really have to be trying to build something that creates value for community. And I think if you have that as your lens from the beginning, you then earn quite good position to succeed. And yeah, I think there's there's quite a lot of examples out there of people doing just that at the moment.
Tom Ollerton 32:06
How would you like people to get in touch with you, if you are open to people reaching out?
Jack Calderwood 32:11
You can just get in touch with me on LinkedIn.
Tom Ollerton 32:13
And what makes a good LinkedIn message to you?
Jack Calderwood 32:16
Hello.
Tom Ollerton 32:19
All right. Well, lots of people will say that now! Jack, thanks so much for your time.
Jack Calderwood 32:25
Cool. Thanks a lot.
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