Episode 4 / Head of Goldsmiths Digital Studios / Blockchain / Rachel Falconer / Head of Goldsmiths Digital Studios
One of my favourite new people of 2018 is Rachel Falconer. She's the Head of Goldsmith's Digital Studios and I had the pleasure of recording a podcast with her. We discussed the impact that Blockchain will have on marketing and you can check it out here...
Episode 4_Rachel Falconer-Head-Goldsmiths Digital Studios
Sun, 10/11 11:26PM • 52:04
This transcription of the podcast was made using 3rd party automation service so it may not be perfectly accurate.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
blockchain, space, people, technology, creative, blockchain technology, smart contract, marketing, marketers, transaction, brands, business, digital, startups, question, notebook, called, ideas, influences, podcast
SPEAKERS
Rachel Falconer, Tom Ollerton
Tom Ollerton 00:00
Hello, and welcome to the Shiny New Object Podcast. This is a podcast about marketing technology, what it is, how it works, and what the opportunities are for brands and agencies that want to use them. I interview interesting people that I know, and I also like. So, it gives me massive pleasure to introduce Rachel Falconer.
Rachel Falconer 00:22
Hello. Hello, Tom. Great to be here.
Tom Ollerton 00:24
That's good that you put your thumb up first. And can you tell the audience who may not be familiar with your work and what you do?
Rachel Falconer 00:35
Yeah, of course, so, hi there. I'm Rachel Falconer. I'm Head of Goldsmiths Digital Studios, which is a spin out of Goldsmiths University, where creative technology prototyping studio offering fast, rapid prototyping and innovation solutions to the creative industries. I guess our specializations. Our main ones are virtual reality, AI, machine learning, signal processing, and a number of different other technologies that have creative outlets. We were really set up to be a testbed for industry in a space for creative experimentation for technology driven, creative experiences.
Tom Ollerton 01:23
And you used to be an advertising person...
Rachel Falconer 01:26
I did, I used to work originally in McCann Erickson, Milan, Italy, as a TV producer. And then I moved into what was then viral advertising before moving back to the UK.
Tom Ollerton 01:38
And then how did you go from that into ruling the roost at Goldsmiths?
Rachel Falconer 01:45
So, I actually went back to college, I went to the Royal College of Art, and it's a curating course, and specialized in digital art and networks, creativity, and then kind of sidestepped back into my original sort of area of expertise, which was Industrial Design, and Communication Design in particular. So, I then started working for Space Studios, and ran their Digital Arts and Design Residency as part of the Bloomberg Foundations Initiative, running The White Building in Hackney Wick, and working on different digital art and design projects, before moving into Goldsmiths and my present role.
Tom Ollerton 02:38
So, it's customary on this podcast for me to ask semi-awkward getting to know your questions. Do you mind if I ask you a couple?
Rachel Falconer 02:46
Go for it.
Tom Ollerton 02:47
Cool. So, right, let's let's go in with a big one. What has been your biggest, horriblest, most embarrassing work failure that is then subsequently set you up for success?
Rachel Falconer 03:03
So, I mean, I think working in creative tech, you're setting yourself up for failure. Because things fuck up all the time. You know, I mean, I guess my work in my career has been setting things up. So, setting up like a co-working space for creative technologists in an area of London called The Hardware or Open Hardware Short Mile a few years ago, and I guess the area wasn't actually ready for the kind of the open heart hardware or distributed manufacturing scene at the time, but people were interested in...
Tom Ollerton 03:39
Hold on, hold on. The open heart hardware distribution scene
Rachel Falconer 03:44
Open hardware.
Tom Ollerton 03:45
Open source.
Rachel Falconer 03:47
Okay, so I'll give you...
Tom Ollerton 03:48
Can you explain? Sorry, I never heard those words.
Rachel Falconer 03:50
So, you know, 3D printing.
Tom Ollerton 03:52
Yeah.
Rachel Falconer 03:53
Otherwise known as distributed manufacturing. So, the idea is you send a blueprint of something to somebody in Thailand, and they can make your design for you.
Tom Ollerton 04:05
Yeah.
Rachel Falconer 04:06
And without paying for it. So it's like, you know, it's like software open or open source software, you have it translated into the hardware space. So, there was a really cool company called Opendesk, which I think is still going in Mare Street. It's up in Hackney. And they're kind of business model was predicated on open hardware. So, sending blueprints for furniture to be manufactured elsewhere in the world. Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 04:34
And so you've been, your career been setting these things up.
Rachel Falconer 04:38
So, I guess the pattern is that setting up collaborative working situations within a networked situation. Not just a studio where people sit around and discuss ideas and make something as a result of that, but perhaps looking at more distributed ways of working, so working with people physically distributed around the world, but also looking at different interdisciplinary crossovers that might occur within a collaborative environment.
Tom Ollerton 05:09
So, come on be honest, what are those... failures? What, tell me about a specific one where you were like, "Oh my god, I've totally balls out of." And then how did you recover from?
Rachel Falconer 05:22
So, we get into specifics?
Tom Ollerton 05:23
Yeah.
Rachel Falconer 05:27
So, I think setting up a co-working space for creative practitioners has come to come in. And I guess, experiment with ideas, I hadn't really taken into account, the fact that people are not necessarily going to want to share their creative ideas with the person sat next to them at the desk, and perhaps the companies that are actually associated with them aren't that happy about their ideas bleeding into a roomful of creative people. So, you've got this kind of utopian view of, you know, this collaborative atmosphere that you want to create, but you haven't, you know, it didn't really take into account the fact that there would be, you know, this kind of bleed of ideas or fear of the bleed of ideas, or this kind of territorial attitude towards the leaking of prototypes and ideas.
Tom Ollerton 06:18
And how were they leaking?
Rachel Falconer 06:20
Well, if you had somebody from one company sitting next to another person from another company, working out as a sort of outsourced researcher and prototyper, so developing things for their company, but on a very experimental level, which was the reason I set up the space for these things to breathe and grow. Though there would be the potential for IP issues to arise, if somebody had made something...
Tom Ollerton 06:44
And did that happen?
Rachel Falconer 06:45
There were concerns that it would happen, which is why we had to kind of put a stop on the whole situation for a while. So, that was horrible.
Tom Ollerton 06:54
And what, give me some sense of the scale of that. Was it like six months or a year?
Rachel Falconer 06:59
Yeah, yeah. This was the pilot year, so we'd set everything up, everybody was keen to go, there have been a number of different sprints, and I'd run a number of different workshops and things were getting quite a lot of attention and, and really getting up and going. And this situation occurred, I think one organization actually plopped onto the fact that there, you know, there could potentially be a leakage of ideas in a collaborative space, which, which is, of course possible. I mean, that's, that's gonna happen, or that's the whole point. But I think that's kind of indicative of a lot of the way things are working at the moment, with IP being kind of an afterthought, intellectual property, and another kind of legal and legislative infrastructure being kind of an afterthought. Whereas in fact, I think from, from that experience, I've found that, particularly with Goldsmiths Digital Studios, it has to be, you know, one of the first things that you use in crafting the business model in the first place.
Tom Ollerton 08:00
So, with that in mind, and you presumably you've had to learn to say "no" to some situations, because you've seen it not working in the past. So, in the last kind of 3, 4, 5 years, what else have you become better at saying "no" to professionally?
Rachel Falconer 08:17
Without sounding too cliches about it, which I think, I think that question can be, can fall down a rabbit hole on that one, and a number of times, but I would say, as a curator, I'm also a digital art curator, is you got to be selective, you've got to aggregate, your network of people that you, that you spend time with, I think time is not necessarily money. But time is a resource that you have to be careful with, particularly within a social networking space that you hope to leverage into a professional opportunity. So, I'm not saying sort of cut out the dead wood, but it's important to choose who you want to spend your professional time with...
Tom Ollerton 08:58
Cut out the dead words. And this is in a physical social space, right?
Rachel Falconer 09:05
Yeah. So, if you were here at a convention, or if you're at a festival, or if you're, you know, going to a meetup or something like that, then I think I've found that particularly within the creative tech space, there's a lot of people wanting to get in there. And you've got, you've got to find natural affiliations with people and be true to that.
Tom Ollerton 09:26
So, do you think that the networking becomes more difficult in that scenario? What I mean and so you, you as a curator and organizer of spaces, and so on. Your time and energy and resource is sought after? So, you kind of attracting dead wood, as well as talent, but how do you, how do you manage network in that scenario?
Rachel Falconer 09:57
There is that as well. I mean, that's painting a picture of me as being a very kind of sought after he goes to the core creature, but I think we all are, when when we enter into a networking situation, we will have an agenda, we've all got something to, to either learn or to give. And I think it's really important to be aware of what your positioning is, within that say that, you know, your attitude might change, depending on what kind of social professional situation you find yourself in. And it's important to always, I think what I've learned over the last few years, is to be clear about what you would like to either give or learn from the situation.
Tom Ollerton 10:35
What and you think like that for every, every...
Rachel Falconer 10:38
I think so.
Tom Ollerton 10:39
Networking or network situation.
Rachel Falconer 10:40
Yeah. Without excluding happy coincidences, or being open to new encounters. I think that I think maybe we've learned that maybe from social networking as well, I think maybe that's a behavior that's translated and say, into the real world that we are aggregators of people.
Tom Ollerton 11:04
We are a great use of people, thought of it like that. And I realized last night was, that socials has changed the way that we say goodbye to people like, but we say that when we were kids, and we had anyone visit us, family, or friends...
Rachel Falconer 11:26
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 11:26
And wave them off.
Rachel Falconer 11:27
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 11:28
You go to the front door, and you'd like wave...
Rachel Falconer 11:29
And stick around the corner.
Tom Ollerton 11:31
Yeah. And that was because literally, we weren't going to see them again, for however long. And, and whereas now, like, you know, like Christmas, I left after being there for a week. And honestly, I think about it, like three people normally just really tell them off. I mean, I'm assuming that's not because they just don't like me. But you think well, I'll, I will definitely not the last time we're going to see.
Rachel Falconer 11:54
Yeah. So, there is that bleeding of behavior that you've begun to notice.
Tom Ollerton 11:59
And so kind of like, take a slightly different tack here.
Rachel Falconer 12:02
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 12:03
And so what, what's the most useful thing that you've bought with your money that you've used artwork?
Rachel Falconer 12:14
I think I'm going to flip that and say I've, again, I'm looking at decreasing the things that I have, and the devices that I use as professional props. So, a lot of my job is finding or spotting talent, and matchmaking, looking at people or, or services, or businesses, or artists, etc, that have a potential crossover with each other. And there are loads of different ways and tools for doing that. But I've reversed it to something as lame as a Matebook notebook, I've got rid of a lot of my sort of technical props, even though I, I kind of work in the tech space.
Tom Ollerton 12:59
And what kind of notebook do you use? Is that like, is it A4 with lots of colored pens?
Rachel Falconer 13:04
It has to be really specific, it has to be a really good quality paper that is easy to use with a pencil. So, I've gone right back to kind of very, very basics. I used to be gadgets it up to the eyeballs, when I used to be, that used to be a particular, because when you work in the tech environment, you're bombarded with, you know, maybe free technical tools that you can try out and different things. So, it's almost like, it became, it came to a point of saturation. I think that's again, a process of elimination rather than, you know, relying on something.
Tom Ollerton 13:12
Tell me about one thing though that I think that might, you might think is nonsense.
Rachel Falconer 13:47
No, go for it.
Tom Ollerton 13:48
There is an app called Scannable.
Rachel Falconer 13:52
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 13:54
So, is that not, is that not?
Rachel Falconer 13:55
Lovely, isn't it?
Tom Ollerton 13:56
Sorry. What Scannable does, is it...
Rachel Falconer 13:57
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 13:58
Takes a photo of your notes. And then reinterprets that as if they were beautifully presented. So, you can take a photo from an angle, but it'll just make it like head on. And then you can... The reason I don't use it, it links to Evernote, not Google Docs, so.
Rachel Falconer 14:12
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 14:13
So, that even that is...
Rachel Falconer 14:16
That's really helpful. I think taking that to the next, on to the next level and look in natural language processing. Soon, we'll be able to really start working with our notes and our sort of tech support and devices and the much more intuitive way, instead of like scanning our notes and transcribing them onto the digital format, it might be that a conversation could be taking up between our cognitive response, jotting something down on a piece of paper, and then how we decide to store an aggregate that on our device. I think we tend to collect and aggregate things more on our tablets, on our computers, on our phone, and we use the notebook perhaps as a way of you know, first impression of something. But I think that the real, well that, that's the kind of assimilation of man and machine as an element. So, get the cognitive process to kind of translate across everything that we use.
Tom Ollerton 15:12
So, I used to use pen and paper and I just write everything down. And then I go and type it all up.
Rachel Falconer 15:19
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 15:20
And so now I just like, every meeting I have is open a Google Doc and just type type, and then it's kind of done.
Rachel Falconer 15:26
It's done. Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 15:27
But do you think I'm missing out on something by not writing it down?
Rachel Falconer 15:31
I think meetings are fine to do that, perhaps more of an, you know, more of the analytical work that you and I do, could perhaps, have more of a space, you know, from notebook to, to computer or to our repository, or how we want to look at our Google Doc space. It could be a much smoother process, it could be more intuitive. And I think maybe technology could help us do that.
Tom Ollerton 15:57
Yeah, it'd be nice if you could flip between two different modes, like I got a friend, he has like a Samsung Notebook with a pen. And every meeting I have with him, he writes it all down. And I'm always like, "That looks so good." But I'm not sure I want to spend seven hundred quid on that. He's obviously doing better than me. Right. Okay. So, next, random getting to know you question. And if you had a digital media budget of 10 million quid to get any message out there, what would it be? And for the listeners who can't see what's going on Rachel's giggling with glee.
Rachel Falconer 16:38
With glee, but also like, question back at you. Why would he pick that amount of money? What would, what was that? What's the 10? million? Is that a...
Tom Ollerton 16:47
It's an obscene amount of budget...
Rachel Falconer 16:50
Might not be enough? You know, it's, it's one of those strange figures in ad spend that, yeah.
Tom Ollerton 16:58
Well, I wonder what figure would cover every media property line.
Rachel Falconer 17:03
This is, this is...
Tom Ollerton 17:04
50 billion, you can buy every space everywhere, simultaneous.
Rachel Falconer 17:10
Exactly.
Tom Ollerton 17:10
So, Rachel, you've got 50 billion pounds.
Rachel Falconer 17:16
We're chasing the big idea again. Now, aren't we on this one? Which is kind of what we're? Well, I'm not sure about that anymore as a thing, but the message would be, would be the key thing to to get right, wouldn't it? But...
Tom Ollerton 17:36
What would your message be? Stop skirting around? Why did you start to ask the same question? Why are you smiling so much? When I asked you that question? And it can't be because of the figure of 10 million.
Rachel Falconer 17:47
It's just it's the question that has been asked of people for generations net of, within, within the Atwells is in, you know, what's the, what's the correlation between money and, and the message? You know, what is the purpose of it, you know, if you message when out on, on one tweet, and if it was strong enough, and it hit the right button, then it would have exactly the same impact as if it...
Tom Ollerton 18:18
That's true. That's also an excellent politician's answer. But I'm gonna push you on this. You could, you could have the poo emoji. And across 10 million quids worth of media.
Rachel Falconer 18:31
And I guess that would be my first reaction to that question. But you're not gonna have to think about that.
Tom Ollerton 18:39
Right, I know.
Rachel Falconer 18:40
You can't coach me for that. I'm not sure how seriously I can take that question.
Tom Ollerton 18:47
Right. So, moving along, in the last five years, apart from learning to be a politician on difficult questions, which new belief or behavior is most improved your work life?
Rachel Falconer 19:08
So, I think, I think probably going back to the, the elimination and clearing out of things, I think saying, I think saying no, I think saying no to not necessarily just invitations or networking opportunities, but also no to some of their professional impulses that I think is becoming part of our learned behavior. I think the, I think the big thing for me is to create space as much as possible within a day to try and look at things in a kind of big picture scenario. Look at things from a big distance rather than trying to get you to do this done. I think it's a common thing that people advice in like self-help books and professional help books like you know, Tim Ferriss, etc. But I think it's really important to, to create that space.
Tom Ollerton 20:12
I agree. But tell me how you do that. So, it's Wednesday morning, you use, half hung over, which can happen. And then you know, you've got 50 emails, and you've got four hour long meetings, how do you find the space to think creatively and strategically?
Rachel Falconer 20:31
Well, the technical buzz is an addiction. So obviously, email is an addictive circuit that we get ourselves into meetings, depends where you work, but you can't always avoid them. But you've got to try and schedule in that, that reflection of time. And I think for particularly the job that I do at the moment, when you're setting something up that is quite complex that involves a number of different criteria. And when you're trying to matchmake between perhaps two spaces or two industries that are perhaps odds with each other, then you need that time to figure out how you know how it's going to look in five months time, five years time, you need that space to project. I don't think a normal workday is we live it now really creates the opportunity to do that, because it's very reactive. It's very responsive.
Tom Ollerton 21:25
Did you put that time in? Do you go like these four hours or this?
Rachel Falconer 21:28
Yeah, I do. A half-day, like that, that has to happen.
Tom Ollerton 21:32
Is there a specific time of the week that you do that? Or is it just, I'll get...
Rachel Falconer 21:36
I can do Monday-Friday, but also find like midweek is quite good because you've had time to do the firefighting so you haven't got anxiety. You can kind of book it in on Wednesday, Thursday, used to be 11 o'clock on Friday, didn't it? When in the 80s and 90s. I don't know if you've heard the... There's been a lot of theories about that. But I think it's some, I think midweek is pretty good. Because you've had the opportunity to consolidate things that were perhaps hanging over you over the weekend. But you've got enough energy left in the to kind of like have a look at the rest of the week. Instead of going you know, let's go to the pub.
Tom Ollerton 22:14
And you take the whole day to do that.
Rachel Falconer 22:17
Take half a day if I can, if I haven't got anything. Urgent, urgent. It's a good half day.
Tom Ollerton 22:22
And sorry to be so specific.
Rachel Falconer 22:24
No, no...
Tom Ollerton 22:24
I find it fascinating. So, will you do that in the office? Or will you go?
Rachel Falconer 22:27
No, definitely not in the office. Again, if I can get out, I go, I get out. But also even if you go sit, if for me, it works. Just moving out of my normal work environment. I don't really have a normal work environment at the moment, but when I did, it was definitely something that I tried to do is you know dislocate myself from a, in a professional environment to try and find that space for reflection.
Tom Ollerton 22:52
And okay, so brutal honesty time, how? How many times out of 10? Will you do that? On 10...
Rachel Falconer 23:03
Yeah, I mean, at the moment, hardly any because it's, it's pretty intense. But on a good month, I would probably say twice, which is enough.
Tom Ollerton 23:13
Right.
Rachel Falconer 23:13
You know, even once is enough to be fair.
Tom Ollerton 23:15
To start half a day...
Rachel Falconer 23:17
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 23:17
Of free thought.
Rachel Falconer 23:19
Exactly.
Tom Ollerton 23:20
And do you, do not take your phone with you, your pencil and paper?
Rachel Falconer 23:24
Both. As long as I'm not checking emails.
Tom Ollerton 23:26
Yeah, the killer isn't it?
Rachel Falconer 23:29
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 23:30
That's really, really interesting. Because I'm this, I'm in this mindset of whether I should do that, obviously, to set up my own business. So, and I was chatting to a couple of lads from Creative AI, did you meet them the other night? Alex, who just like, incredibly interesting guys, and really smart. And they told me about this thing called Conrad's Law. I don't think it's a law. I think it's more of Conrad's opinion.
Rachel Falconer 23:44
Yep, yeah. I did. Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 23:59
But Conway's Law states that a company's product will reflect exactly its culture and how it's set up. So, if you look at Google, like it's got, you've got Google Maps, Google Books, you've got Android or Google Earth.
Rachel Falconer 24:14
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 24:14
They're very, they're culturally a very compartmentalized business, apparently. And so as a result, and those things don't really talk to each other. I mean, they, I guess they would say that they do and I guess they do a degree.
Rachel Falconer 24:26
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 24:26
But it's not like it's, it's lots of small departments talking to each other, as well as being, being whole. And I thought that, you know, may have set up this business like, well, right. If that's true, then I absolutely must prioritize creative and strategic thought that's on hinge from the day to day, because I'm just sitting there. You know, being... That's what will come out, right? Just be like an email reading...
Rachel Falconer 24:52
You can see the genesis of it from the beginning, it will reflect on the outcome.
Tom Ollerton 24:56
So, I'm toying with the idea of just having Friday off to think creatively and strategically. Which is tomorrow!
Rachel Falconer 25:06
It's tomorrow!
Tom Ollerton 25:07
No emails for me!
Rachel Falconer 25:08
Fantastic!
Tom Ollerton 25:09
And so I'll let you know how that goes on. But I, I'm slightly, slightly nervous. Do I not check my email at all? Or do I...
Rachel Falconer 25:17
So, this is the question isn't it? Can you not check email for a day?
Tom Ollerton 25:21
Yeah, well, I can. But what was the cost of doing that?
Rachel Falconer 25:26
You decide the cost.
Tom Ollerton 25:29
Okay, who's podcast is this? Right. Okay, cool. So, we've done half an hour of getting to know you. And I've got to stop doing that in a weird voice. So, this is the Shiny New Object Podcast, where we look at latest cool shit in marketing, and then try to get under the skin of it a bit.
Rachel Falconer 25:49
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 25:49
And so, with... I just did a podcast with Dave and Patrick, and their shiny object was the human brain and technology. Which was really good. And, but we decided to talk about Blockchain.
Rachel Falconer 26:04
We have.
Tom Ollerton 26:06
Can you, right, this the worst question possible. Can you explain what blockchain technology is? Without saying distributed ledger.
Rachel Falconer 26:14
I can try.
Tom Ollerton 26:17
So, we can assume a kind of beginner level understanding of blockchain. For the audience in this podcast, but what, how would you describe it to your mates who don't work in it?
Rachel Falconer 26:29
Yeah. I mean, I think this is a big problem in general, not being able to summarize something that is on the, you know, at the base of it very, very simple. But it is a democratized way of recording transactions, without a gatekeeper through a networked collection of computers, that only a certain subscribed group of people can be part of. And the way that they arrive at a decision is through creating consensus between the group of computers. So, this is where the kind of non-hierarchical middleman, or non-existent, the getting rid of the middleman should I say, happens or occurs is, each transaction is verified on a random basis by one of the computers in this, in the designated system. I think I've actually made that more complicated than it needed to be. I was just trying to dislodge the whole distributed ledger.
Tom Ollerton 27:42
So, okay, so I think that was a great description. But can you give me an example of that in action to help bring that...
Rachel Falconer 27:52
Sure. I mean, I think that the way that a lot of people describe it is like having a shared Google Doc, with lots of, you know, with, or a notebook that's left in the car, by one of the members of the group, but everybody else has the same notebook with the same notes in at the same time.
Tom Ollerton 28:11
And we're left in a car that seems like a...
Rachel Falconer 28:14
It was, just seems to be one of those examples that happened. I mean, I can't remember the last time I left anything in a car, but um...
Tom Ollerton 28:21
So, I like that description of Google Doc. Okay. So, why are you interested in blockchain?
Rachel Falconer 28:28
So, I guess within the, I'm just gonna sort of refer back to marketing.
Tom Ollerton 28:34
Yeah.
Rachel Falconer 28:34
And I would like to look at where we're at with marketing. I guess the key areas for the marketing community for blockchain have been in our, sort of fraud verification, security, creating transparency, and trust between brands and the consumer. And sort of tracking influences is a blockchain at the moment. As far as I can see within the marketing space is used as a verification and tracking device within the trusted community of users, which is, which certainly improves trust and efficiencies within marketing space. And I can see how that could potentially be used to further the relationship between brands and consumer by guests. The application of the blockchain within the creative space that I'm interested in, is perhaps a more community-led version of that where we're looking at community building within the marketing space as a kind of a new and democratized entity.
Tom Ollerton 29:50
Can we just jump back one second?
Rachel Falconer 29:51
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 29:52
The marketing applications of blockchain before we get into our world which is fascinating. You talked about fraud verification and tracking influences. So, please describe specifically how a brand who is listening to this podcast could use a blockchain to do both those two things.
Rachel Falconer 30:12
So, for example, there's this company called Ternio. I don't know if you've heard of that, T-e-r-n-i-o. Which has been set up specifically to do this for the marketing and ad industry. And they use blockchain technology to verify users pay publishers. And, and basically protects agencies from ad fraud, which I think is one of the main focuses of, of blockchain technology as applied to the marketing space.
Tom Ollerton 30:49
So how does that work? How does that practically...
Rachel Falconer 30:52
So, it's basically blockchain can be used to identify bots, who kind of pose as consumers through the click through dynamic. So, the blockchain technology can verify whether the click through is being activated by an actual real person or by bots, which is very useful in the marketing space.
Tom Ollerton 31:19
And what kind of stage are they are? Are they established business now? Or are they...
Rachel Falconer 31:22
They're definitely... 2017, last year was very much the establishing kind of curve, or point of development. And now, these businesses are being, you know, recognized and used, and will be increasingly so over the next 18 months, I would imagine, because obviously, that is a key problem within the community.
Tom Ollerton 31:45
And sorry to get...
Rachel Falconer 31:47
Yeah, no, no, no.
Tom Ollerton 31:49
Super into this. Well, it's fascinating. So, how is the blockchain or the technology that Ternio is using? Alongside the blockchain, how does that detect whether it's a bot or a person clicking on an ad?
Rachel Falconer 32:03
Well, basically every transaction will have an identity which is...
Tom Ollerton 32:06
A transaction is a...
Rachel Falconer 32:07
A click through or a...
Tom Ollerton 32:09
...transaction after the click through Yeah, okay.
Rachel Falconer 32:12
Exactly. Preserve identifiable structure in the first place. So, one of the key features of blockchain is that every transaction or every action that is performed on the blockchain will have a unique identity. So, everything is traceable and accountable and, and trackable so that technology works very well for programmatic for example, it's been, that's certainly space where blockchain is developing within the marketing space as well. And I think identity and transparency features within the technology of blockchain are going to be increasingly used by marketers.
Tom Ollerton 33:00
And how about the trading influences? Trading? Tracking...
Rachel Falconer 33:09
So again, influences that kind of veracity or genuine influence can be traced through the blockchain technology by detecting whether the influences have statistical clouds or actually have unquantifiable followers. So, click farms, for example will be something over the past if this technology is implemented in a, in a true and consensus building fashion.
Tom Ollerton 33:43
But is that, Ternio doing that as well? Or is that a...
Rachel Falconer 33:46
I think I believe that they are, I think that I, I do think there are a number of different startups that are aiming to, to look at that there is a startup called BehaviourExchange, who aiming to tokenize user behavior, offering a sort of credit system between advertisers and the consumer. I mean, to really sort of remove the middleman, managing big media, I guess it was going to be inevitable that this becoming a dynamic or a pattern of behavior. But there is a real move to get rid of the middleman and become like the source.
Tom Ollerton 34:30
And how does that work? I wonder with people having the ability to sell their own data, because there was a couple of years tops and last kind of four or five years where you could, you could declare who you were.
Rachel Falconer 34:44
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 34:45
And even put your social contacts and you're, even your bank details.
Rachel Falconer 34:50
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 34:50
And I did it. I can't remember the name of the company, but I get these notifications going. You've earned one pump...
Rachel Falconer 34:55
Exactly.
Tom Ollerton 34:57
...from your data this week.
Rachel Falconer 34:58
I think and that's that's taking like the big picture starts as well looking at as blockchain as a social change or signifies something that's going to change social behavior that will obviously have a knock on effect of, on how marketers, you know, kind of consume and use data with our clients. So, the drive towards transparency and ownership of data that's encouraged by the blockchain technology has to be anticipated, I would suggest by brands and their, their agencies and you know, well in advance in order to be reactive and responsive to that.
Tom Ollerton 35:38
And so if, if you listen to this podcast and your marketer and you think, "Right, yeah, that makes a lot of sense." Other than speaking to these startups, and I'll share the links in the show notes, how would a brand go about using blockchain technology? What, what's an easy step or a first port of call?
Rachel Falconer 35:56
I would say look at the, look at the startups within your particular area of, of expertise. But I would also say, look at some of the more open source kind of startups, particularly those working on the Ethereum blockchain structure as opposed to any other I think that increasingly they they kind of smart contract space is going to be a really interesting space for marketers to look at as well.
Tom Ollerton 36:27
Can you take two steps back?
Rachel Falconer 36:29
Yeah. So, try to find Ethereum?
Tom Ollerton 36:32
Yes, just a... I know what it is, mostly.
Rachel Falconer 36:35
So, Ethereum is the, I guess the alternative to, to Bitcoin, or one of the main competitors to the Bitcoin structure. It is a built on blockchain. But the thing about a Ethereum, is it, is actually a much more open structure. And infrastructure, it offers a lot more services, but it's also one of the, one of the main providers and developers of something called a smart contract, which differs from a cryptocurrency in the sense that you can add more clauses and definition onto, onto each transaction.
Tom Ollerton 37:14
So, we, we... I came to watch you at Innovation Social.
Rachel Falconer 37:17
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 37:18
And you presented on a blockchain panel. And it was you, you all spoke with... Anyway...
Rachel Falconer 37:24
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 37:25
And then, the lady sat next to me, put a hand up and went, "What's a smart contract?"
Rachel Falconer 37:31
"What's a smart contract?" Exactly. Yeah. So, smart contracts are essentially, if you think about the blockchain, in the most simplistic terms, it's a series of transactions. So, if you look at a smart contract, it's a series of transactions that have, if you do this, then this will happen clauses within them. So, you can build upon a blockchain or look at a blockchain as a series of supersafe consensus building contracts between businesses or between people. So, for example, there is an organization called Mattereum, who are using smart contracts to bring the digital into the physical realm, whereby they're using smart contracts to within the real estate space to formulate mortgage contracts between clients and businesses. So, smart contract is essentially a transaction within the blockchain infrastructure that has, that has more information, it has the potential to have more information and more, more use cases, use clauses that can be applied to each transaction. So, it's, it's really creating a bespoke environment in which businesses can use the blockchain technology.
Tom Ollerton 39:06
So, can you give me like a fictional example of a brand? I, Argos?
Rachel Falconer 39:12
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 39:13
And I want to, I've gone and found some startups in my area. Yeah. Supplying services that are using Ethereum technology. Like, how, can you just talk through how that might play out?
Rachel Falconer 39:29
So, they're using Ethereum technology startups and they want to work in collaboration with Argos.
Tom Ollerton 39:36
Yeah.
Rachel Falconer 39:36
That you might well use a blockchain or sorry, a smart contract, to set up a contract of collaboration between the two parties or quite simply a means of contract of payments. So, you could, you could transfer all of the payments, mechanisms that you have within your business and put onto an Ethereum smart contracts, so the both parties were walking into a situation in with, with the trust and with the the kind of clauses in place before that collaboration even began. It would be automatically verified it wouldn't need either party to be the gatekeeper. It would be a, an entity of, on its own.
Tom Ollerton 40:26
So, how I understood this right that you say, "Okay, Startup X, you are going to deliver me 50,000 downloads of my app. And you will do this by Sunday, the 12th of May, and you won't use any bots to do this. And you will, you won't let anyone under the age of six, download this."
Rachel Falconer 40:49
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 40:49
And if someone delivered all of those things that would automatically trigger payment, because there was a smart contract that tracks each of those digital actions.
Rachel Falconer 40:57
That's explained much better than I would have. That was exactly what I was trying to kind of get my finger on.
Tom Ollerton 41:03
And yeah, so there's some interesting uses that I've heard of conversationally, yeah. In the art world, I think around legitimizing what an actual artwork is, who owns what, what's the value of so and so. But when, when you spoke in Innovation Stories, which was excellent, you talked about some really creative uses of the blockchain in, in pure art, if...
Rachel Falconer 41:30
You can say pure art.
Tom Ollerton 41:31
There's a proper term for that, I don't know.
Rachel Falconer 41:33
Well, I've move away from like, I'm trying to move away from from all of that as well, because I think the two, you know, the, the fine art worlds, if you like, and the marketing and advertising space, are becoming more and more entwined due to technologies that have a creative application.
Tom Ollerton 41:57
Tell me more about...
Rachel Falconer 42:00
I mean, I think that the advertising laws and the fine art world have always had, you know, super clear connections and, you know, influence over each other. That because the technology that we that we use is becoming a kind of democratic platform, I also see using creative applications of technology, and people working in digital agencies are people that are within a crate have a creative output within a more consumer or commercial space, using the same tools as artists, if you like within the art world are, then I think there's a common medium that is kind of bringing them together. And I think the influence at the moment is really interesting to see between the two. And it's not just because of the medium, I think it's also the fact that a lot of artists are working with a medium boss, a critiquing the digital world. And I think a lot of advertising. And some of the most interesting ideas that are coming out of the marketing space are becoming more involved with the kind of network effect of our lives.
Tom Ollerton 43:12
Okay. Give me an example, where have you seen where we've seen that crossover, really producer kind of rich outcome?
Rachel Falconer 43:20
I would say that there hasn't been a rich outcome....
Tom Ollerton 43:31
Apologies, rich outcomes, like when's it... So, you saying it's crossing over, like when...
Rachel Falconer 43:37
Well, I was crossing over. But I mean, I think that going back to blockchain, I think that there is more leverage that the marketing and advertising space can get out of a consensus building community building structure, such as a blockchain. So, the core motivation behind blockchain is tokenization. So, people need to buy into the idea or the particular use of blockchain to create the community around it to create the infrastructure itself. So, I think that is perhaps not being spoken about as much as perhaps the kind of fraud evasion, and other more kind of practical uses, if you like, if I can use that word of blockchain within the marketing space. Perhaps it might be interesting to look at other other ways of community building because I mean, the blockchain is actually been described as the, you know, the potentially the new internet. So, it's got all sorts of utopian baggage loaded upon it and expectation is high that it will create this kind of new free and open web again, but what does that mean to marketers? What does that, what is the knock on effect of that and I think that's a really, you know, interesting space to kind of interrogate, perhaps now as the technology is developing, and it's still very, is still at the very beginning. So, maybe it's now that the bigger, more kind of abstract ideas needs to be played out.
Tom Ollerton 45:18
And so what are the what are from the fine art world? What are the most interesting examples that you've seen of using blockchain?
Rachel Falconer 45:27
Well, I think to be honest, that art world is kind of at the same stage as the rest of the creative community in the sense that they're still figuring out exactly what the ramifications of the technology are. So, artists typically comment and critique existing cultural or social artifacts. So, the work that I've seen on you know, kind of referencing or using the blockchain from fine artists has been more kind of critique on the existing blockchain technology rather than using blockchain technology for, you know, a really interesting purpose. And so maybe what we need to do is like reference back to the genesis of this, which are the creative technologists and tech, and technologists and developers, using and developing the blockchain technology and looking at, you know, possible use cases and looking at how the market behaves towards them, but towards blockchain. Because I think that nobody knows quite what to do with it, including artists.
Tom Ollerton 46:32
So, give me an example of an artist using blockchain to comment on it.
Rachel Falconer 46:39
So, I think I showed you a couple of examples, I think there was one that is perhaps one of the clearest examples, which was Sarah Friend game, where every, it was, I think it was a mining game that I showed you. So, one of the biggest, you know, kind of effects of blockchain technology is the environmental deficit that we're experiencing, because of the sheer computer power needed to generate the transactions on the blockchain, which is basically using up a lot of resource and having a direct effect on the environment. So, Sarah's Game...
Tom Ollerton 47:19
I heard, said that, was it Bitcoin? Uses as much power as islands?
Rachel Falconer 47:24
Islands. I think that's the classic example, isn't it? Yeah. So, I mean, that's definitely a thing. But there are, there are ways to get around it, though. I mean, this is the other thing. It's like, all of this is not inevitable. I mean, this is what I mean, one of my favorite writers, and developers, and scientists is Jaron Lanier, who he kind of always says, like, technological development and evolution is not inevitable. You know, we have control over the way that it plays out. So, if blockchain technology is having a negative effects on the environment, then surely we should be thinking into spacing, ways of counteracting that already, whether it's through looking at alternative sources of energy or, or devising technological solutions to, to actually counter at the the kind of mining process itself. So, this is where I think we need to become a lot more involved in the technology itself.
Tom Ollerton 48:32
So, we've got to wrap it up now. Unfortunately, so how...
Rachel Falconer 48:37
Yeah.
Tom Ollerton 48:37
If so, for marketers, I think was great advice to go and find where the startups. And....
Rachel Falconer 48:46
And don't worry too much about the ins and outs of the technology, think about how your business is going to be compatible with a blockchain model. And if it's not, don't do it. Because blockchain is not the solution for everything. I would think that it would be interesting to see how it plays out over the next 12 months, but I think...
Tom Ollerton 49:11
What's your view next 12 months in blockchain and marketing?
Rachel Falconer 49:14
Well, the hype bubbles burst. Yeah, so that all happened last year. And I think that, you know, moving forward, I think that a lot of, a lot of talk is revolving around the the kind of tokenization, utility token area, but also, the biggest one is the platform. So, at the moment, we've got a Ethereum which, which presents was an alternative, one of the one of the only credible alternatives to Bitcoin. So, the platform itself is going to have to market is going to have to diversify and find a competitive pool to play in. And I think that that's definitely something that we need to watch over the next 12 months that other platforms will be springing up, hopefully around...
Tom Ollerton 50:05
So, when you say platforms you mean?
Rachel Falconer 50:07
So, Ethereum is a platform for block blockchain.
Tom Ollerton 50:11
Yeah.
Rachel Falconer 50:12
But it's not the only one.
Tom Ollerton 50:13
Yeah.
Rachel Falconer 50:14
But it has a credibility about it because of market forces around the Ether. And the way that is different I guess it has a brand identity because of the nature of the brands that are getting involved in using their Ethereum infrastructure. So, it's a whole market ready to be developed.
Tom Ollerton 50:34
And so you mean new platforms on top of the...
Rachel Falconer 50:37
On top of Ethereum but also as well as so in competition with so, so the competition pool is non-existent. At the moment, I think that's certainly a growth area that, that's going to happen over the 12 months, in the next 12 months. So, that needs to happen. Because otherwise that, there will be a kind of narrowing of the market almost prematurely. If this thing is going to have legs, which I hope it does, because it does provide, I think at the moment, intangible but the very exciting prospects for perhaps a new way of communicating brands, brand's identity across the consumer market.
Tom Ollerton 51:19
Well, that is a profound and beautiful place to leave it. Wow, that was that was excellent. I thought I understood blockchain better than I do. You clearly prove to me that I don't. And it was really great to see some practical examples of how marketers can use it. And I'm certainly gonna check out those couple of startups you mentioned, because I think that'd be a good first step. So, if people want to stay in touch with you, how would they get in touch?
Rachel Falconer 51:49
And they can get me on Goldsmiths digital websites, or you can find me on Twitter, @RachelMFalconer.
Tom Ollerton 51:58
Cool. All right. Well, thank you so much.
Rachel Falconer 52:00
Thank you very much.
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